New councillor wants to stop 'free mixing' between men and women

[SeaSwim5]

Independent candidate Maheen Kamran has been elected in Burnley.

As well as support for Gaza, her manifesto included a pledge to encourage public spaces to end free mixing of men and women.

"Muslim women aren't really comfortable being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms."

Is this a sensible approach and important for inclusivity? It's notable that many anti-Trans activists advocate the importance of single-sex spaces.

However, some have raised concerns about the growing sectarian nature of UK politics.

Should we be looking to reduce 'free mixing' between men and women and create more single sex spaces?

I think OP is shoehorning in the Muslim situation into a somewhat patronising slap on the wrists for any of us women who want women only spaces, go on OP, be brave and just admit it. And reword your post to just say it and stop fannying (or dicking) around. Tiresome TRA

Absolutely this.

I think she sounds very young and probably too immature to bring much value to the process of local government, but has been elected as a councillor representing a ward so hey ho. She will probably find that most of her correspondence and interaction with her constituents, not just her voters, will be about parking, school places, bin collections, noisy neighbours, dog mess and failed planning applications. Segregated parks will not be high on most peoples reasons to block up her inbox, which is how it should be. I am not surprised that a Muslim woman is expressing support for Palestine.

I think the SC made it clear where spaces should be designated single sex by law and what single sex means, and I've very happy with that. I don't believe it to be 'the thin end of the wedge' that will lead to forced separation of the sexes at all times and think attempts to imply that are scaremongering to call the judgement into question. I believe that where particular groups of people request a single sex facility the request should be considered with reference to the EA, which is the case already.

Maheen, hasn’t made a policy statement or pledge … but she HAS said quite a lot about what she thinks of MUSLIM men.

She wants Muslim Men separated from Muslim Women … at the gym.

it’s very “Labour two-tier” …. That’s it’s 100% OK for her to say this….

Then they would be totally deluded and utterly wrong.

I'm fairly certain that the woman her suggestion is aimed at - i.e the one who is excluded from mainstream life because of the religious and cultural traditions of her male family members - would still be prevented from taking part in these new segregated parts of society, again by the religious and cultural traditions of her male family members. They will always find a way

No no no, this is too far. If you want to live like this move to a Muslim country. And I say that as a non White person (British Indian).

I don’t eat beef, my English husband does and so does my toddler. I’m not saying beef in supermarkets makes me uncomfortable and should be banned.

Im sorry but I want to live in a country where women can wear booty shorts if they so please and can leave the house without a male chaperone. We need to preserve British culture. Honestly women’s freedom is a JOKE in most countries. Let’s not take a step back in the UK.

The segregation agenda is a means of controlling women. Don’t forget that.

Yep

This ^^

And please stop trying to cleverly draw parallels between this and the nasty TERFs. How tiresome.

Yes I fell for it. Op is not posting in good faith. But for the benefit of lurkers I will point out why the two situations are different…

Single sex spaces are sometimes necessary for the dignity and protection of girls and women.

Conservative religious groups want sex segregation largely to protect the dominance and superiority of men. And TRAs want women to capitulate for exactly the same misogynistic reasons.

HTH

Should we be looking to reduce 'free mixing' between men and women and create more single sex spaces?

No. I oppose segregation on any lines: sex, ethnicity, sexuality, disability etc.

But there should be appropriate safeguarding and protection from discrimination.

Public beaches are a prime example. Some people are in skimpy swimwear, getting changed and swimming. If it turns out anyone is being sexually harassed on a beach, they should call the police. If sexual harassment became prevalent, the local authority may need to provide staff at busy times to protect people. Just as they provide lifeguards.

Yes, trans women would say they are also women but they aren't. They are a subset of men.

Totally fine to have women only gyms, women only slots at the pools and public spaces

it increases inclusivity and is not just for people who are religious. The amount of times I’ve had men be inappropriate with me in a library/swimming pool/exercise class is probably about a dozen.

I don’t want to engage with random men in public spaces when I’m wearing the equivalent of my underwear so I would use timed slots at pools/gyms etc

Trans women can say what they like, it doesn't mean it's factually correct. We all know trans women are not women, can't believe some people are mad enough to think otherwise.

Bravo. Of course your post will be ignored by those who seek to call anybody racist who holds your view. It's common sense but people have become afraid to say it.

This is not a muslim country, despite many seeming to think it is. There are plenty of countries where she can be segregated for being a woman, perhaps she could go to the one where she/her parents/grandparents came from and leave the rest of us in peace.

As with anything, intent matters.

Stopping men who think they're women coming into women's spaces because we don't want them there and statistics say that they commit sexual crimes at a higher percentage than typical men? That is what women want and is our right.

We are advocating for it to happen in certain situations, times and spaces.

Enforcing religious ideals from a religion that is deeply misogynistic and controlling of women by nature? That isn't what we are fighting for and is a very slippery slope.

One is keeping men out of a space for reasons that benefit all women. (whether they admit it or not).

The other is keeping women IN a space. It is creating designated lines where we are allowed to go from a basis that inherently favours men and their freedoms.

We are already living in a patriarchal society where two women are killed a week by men and 1 in 4 of us a raped or sexually assaulted.

Let's not give men another reason reason to start attacking us or policing us.

Edit to say I wouldn't be opposed to women's only time slots at certain places. It may be helpful for women who have been abused and assaulted, not just religious women.

But I would be fearful of the pendulum shift in the wrong direction and I am strongly against giving ANY religious ideals too much power. Give an inch and they will take a mile.

I oppose transwomen accessing women’s single-sex spaces/services where these spaces are necessary. Eg women who are changing clothes should be able to do so without being watched by men. This preference for privacy/dignity has been recognised in British society for generations.

in British society, expectation (imo) is that public spaces are available to everyone unless there was a very good reason why not. So I see no good reason for sex-segregation in general, even though I don’t want to change my clothes in front of an unknown transwoman (ie a male). Just my opinion, but not in line with that you would ascribe to me.

I don’t take my clothes off in the library

That sounds good on paper, but that's not what I'm reading in the autobiographies and accounts of women who have escaped Islam. Women who can no longer see their children or family because of needing to leave, often to save their lives.

Like most religions, the stuff looks good written down, but real life practices don't reflect the writings.

Look at OP’s faux, wide eyed pondering of

‘I wonder why swimming pools are different from libraries, just can’t think of any’

The amount of disinformation on this thread is a problem. Segregating men and women for reasons other than safeguarding, dignity or limited religious reasons is not currently lawful.

Single sex spaces are lawful when you are undressed, vulnerable, or where you might reasonably object to a person of the opposite sex being present.
That is to allow for safeguarding, dignity and peoples modesty; it is not 'anti trans.'

Added to that, I'm flummoxed that an 18 year old can be considered mature enough for this role. This tells me that secular focus is controlling her election. Interesting that the Reform candidate came second in Burnley.