New councillor wants to stop 'free mixing' between men and women

[SeaSwim5]

Independent candidate Maheen Kamran has been elected in Burnley.

As well as support for Gaza, her manifesto included a pledge to encourage public spaces to end free mixing of men and women.

"Muslim women aren't really comfortable being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms."

Is this a sensible approach and important for inclusivity? It's notable that many anti-Trans activists advocate the importance of single-sex spaces.

However, some have raised concerns about the growing sectarian nature of UK politics.

Should we be looking to reduce 'free mixing' between men and women and create more single sex spaces?

OK- we see you...

I think many parents of all backgrounds would like more girls-only senior schools because they feel their daughters would thrive there - doesn't mean they want separate lives for men and women.

It’s not a thread about Maheen Kamran is it? It’s a not so subtle attempt at warning us pesky women that we shouldn’t be asking for our basic rights because it’s “anti-trans” and will lead to sex segregation.

In areas with large Muslim populations the gyms and swimming pools etc often accommodate women's only sessions. I think that's fine, it's as much a consumer driven consideration as anything else. We live in a capitalist society so most people should accept that.

But as the majority of consumers don't want it all the time it would be unnecessary.

It’s about the scenario.

Free mixing where people are undressing etc - NO

Free mixing at work, socially etc - OF COURSE

Nothing is ever a blanket yes or no. It’s what is appropriate to the facts.

You aren't going to succeed in making people decide well, actually, they're fine with single sex spaces being removed because that'll show Muslims who's boss - or thinking 'if I agree with a Muslim councillor, that must mean I'm actually supporting the Taliban/Hamas/whatever - no, let the males into the shower area with us after all'.

The need is there for women of all faiths and of none.

No it's not. We had such single sex spaces for most of my life until Stonewall lied to organisations and told them it was against the law.

I think the Mayor's focus should be on all her constituents not just certain ones. I also don't see how her support for Gaza benefits Burnley.

Quoted you … what are you “on about” ??

It’s weird isn’t it.

Because women managed to have their own spaces at times and no had an issues.

No one was claiming a women’s only toilet would lease to women eventually being defeated completely and having all rights taken away. No one was claiming women wanting their own space was the same completely segregation for men and women. No one claimed that it would lead to situations like Afghanistan. No one used the fact that these spaces existed to take it to extremes and try and have it so men and women could never mix.

People were sensible and realised that sometimes Womens’s spaces were needed.

And then some men wanted access to those spaces. And some women objected to it. Then people start being ridiculous. With the ‘women who want women only spaces will be responsible for turning this country into Afghanistan’ argument being the most ridiculous. Goes hand in hand with ‘gender critical women are trying to erase trans women by calling them transwomen’.

Funny how it all started when women decided they wanted to object to men’s desires to enter these spaces.

Op you aren’t fooling anyone. You aren’t neutral, hence you calling people anti trans. Being pro women isn’t anti trans. The people who think that are not neutral.

Why does it have to be one extreme of the other? Why does it have to be women’s fault that the single sex space discussion is being taken to extreme to further some people’s agendas?

Why can’t it be ‘if trans women really have a shit about women they would be supporting women in having their own space’ or ‘why can’t transwomen just accept that for years women have had their own spaces and it’s been fine, but their determination to force themselves in those spaces has now raised questions about how far degradation should go.’

Or even ‘transwomen who tried to force themselves into women’s spaces have caused a situation’.

Funny how the blame for this is being placed on GC women’s doorsteps, not the door steps of the people who couldn’t accept women having some space for themselves out of safety.

and let’s be honest, full segration base on sex isn’t going o be helpful for transwomen is it? Since they apparently feel in danger from men? Or do we think once they realised they will never access women’s spaces they will just stop being trans? That would be strange almost like it was a choice?

It's like many things - it's great if it's a choice, very bad if it starts becoming compulsory

But only an idiot would make that point as we've always considered men to be men regardless of their clothes and also managed to not have full sex segregation. It's only the past ten years anyone tried to change the definition of man to sometimes be "woman with a penis".

She's 18 and an independent councillor on a council with 50+ reform councillors not sure she'll get very far with her manifesto. She won't be a councillor for long if the proposed reforms to councils go ahead.

The swimming pool already has 2 women only sessions. They're probably not suitable for lots of women given the times but they are there.

@SergeantDawkins I think you’ve got a little bit confused. Let me explain to you.

Most women are happy for spaces to be mixed in most situations eg shops, restaurants, gyms, swimming pools, schools, colleges, offices, waiting rooms etc. But in the situations that typically aren’t mixed (toilets, changing rooms, prisons, rape crisis centres, women’s refuges) we don’t want men coming in.

Hope that makes it clearer for you.

This resonated with something that came to mind when I was ranting about Vance. The American attempt to impose segregation by colour on British society, as we weren't educated about how necessary it was. The word 'segregation' did it. We managed to cope with it then, didn't think it was good idea at all. And it isn't now.
A family goes to the park, but the play area has been signed for women, so Dad has to sit arouind outside. Not nice, is it? Families together at the beach. Not on.
It is not the British way. If Muslims want segregation in public areas, they should buy their own land and set up their own parks, not inhibit others from mixing publicly.

No.

It's funny how it's all the Muslim countries people are fleeing from but yet once they're here in a more secular country they want to change it to what they left.

Let them have their own spaces but segregated public spaces just no.

She obviously has a pretty low opinion of Muslim men.

One Councillor has said this. How likely is it that "public money" will be spent on it?

So why did women’s spaces exist for many years without this being the next logical step?

When did believing that women require some spaces to themselves, become far right?

If the Right to recognise that women (who are 51% of the UK population) are one of the two sex of human is an anti-trans right then trans rights are by default anti-womens rights.

And using the term "anti-trans" is failing to recognise the 50%+ of the population of that sub-section of society will be women.

There's a ladies only gym in my area. If there is a market for it businesses are going to do it. I don't like the idea of segregation in public spaces though, I think any council leisure centres should continue to be mixed. I go to the gym with my son, people go with their partners or mixed sex friends.

You have completely missed my point. And I did not say anything against Muslim Women. It’s not Islam that’s the problem. It’s controlling me. If any religion or culture.

Slippery slope and all that! However, many council swimming pools already have women's only sessions.

This is what you get when you allow sectarian politics... like the Birmingham MP who is ardently and openly supporting the building of an airport in a specific area of Pakistan while his Birmingham constituents streets are overflowing with uncollected rubbish!

I think anyone should open a business as they wish - men only gyms, women only gyms and mixed sex gyms for example. I do think sometimes sexes prefer to spend time with the same sex, including men. The problem historically with that is that it’s excluded women from getting ahead (business deals happening on golf courses as an example). But as women gain more economic power I don’t see a problem with this.

the issue will come from when choice is removed - there will be no choice but male/female segregation. And those choices are gendered - for example a girls only school learning needlework and housekeeping.

it’s a fine line and I bloody hope we don’t cross it.

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