New councillor wants to stop 'free mixing' between men and women

[SeaSwim5]

Independent candidate Maheen Kamran has been elected in Burnley.

As well as support for Gaza, her manifesto included a pledge to encourage public spaces to end free mixing of men and women.

"Muslim women aren't really comfortable being involved with Muslim men. I'm sure we can have segregated areas, segregated gyms."

Is this a sensible approach and important for inclusivity? It's notable that many anti-Trans activists advocate the importance of single-sex spaces.

However, some have raised concerns about the growing sectarian nature of UK politics.

Should we be looking to reduce 'free mixing' between men and women and create more single sex spaces?

Then you’re thick and nobody should waste time explaining the difference to you.

Difficult question, as you say there's no caption on her photo.

I have never come across anyone believing trans people shouldn't have any rights. They just don't have the rights of the opposite sex. So males, regardless of identity, should not have access to female only spaces as they are not female.

Trans people have the sex based rights of their sex. They also have specific protections on the basis of gender reassignment.

Personally, I think you are being disingenuous as the language you are using is very much indicative of someone with a view that trans people should have access to spaces reserved for the opposite sex.

What rights do you think that gender critical feminists are trying to take away? Because trans people have exactly the same rights as everyone else, they just aren’t allowed extra ones.

To get back the issue at hand, there is nothing to stop anyone setting up a group that is for men or women only. In fact, that’s actually easier because of the SC ruling. But do I want to have a situation where it is generally seen as acceptable for men and women to be discouraged or even stopped from mixing? Absolutely not. I do not want to see a change to our society where the norms of another culture are imposed with regards sex segregation. It is not how we do things in Britain. But it’s not clear whether the individual quoted in the OP is calling for more single sex spaces as carved-out alternatives, or for public spaces to be segregated by default.

Privacy, safety, and dignity of women when undressed or otherwise vulnerable is always a legitimate aim. Providing a single sex space is a proportionate means to doing that.

This thread must be a joke. Can people really not see the difference between women wanting single sex spaces in places such as toilets, prisons, hospital wards and rape crisis centres and demanding the segregation of the sexes in “public places”?!

There used to be plenty of women's gyms, where have they all gone? I used to go to fitness first for women in Brighton every day before I had my kids, that was nearly 20 years ago now!

Am I missing something, or don’t female
only gyms already exist?

As for the councillor, I can’t get worked up about one councillor with a few mad ideas (if indeed, they are mad).

@IDareSay

So we should move to a position where men and women are segregated in all public spaces?

Sounds like she is just trying to do what she thinks will be popular with a majority in order keep her in her position / further her career, her interests lie with herself and not the general population

This.

Me neither. Politicians and commentators who have been ignorantly dismissed as extreme right wing in the past have been trying to warn us about where this country is potentially heading for decades,
unfortunately I fear it’s fallen on the deaf ears of successive governments and the horse has bolted.

Generally women who are GC only want women’s spaces where they need privacy and performing intimate functions-changing rooms, loos, prisons and of course protected sex in sport where a man would have e an advantage. We don’t want same sex spaces wandering along the street, in shops, libraries, and definitely not schools. Just going about normal life.

If the space is specifically aimed at Muslims then it's up to them if they feel the need to segregate in this way.
Public spaces are for people of all faiths or no faith to be enjoyed equally. So of course they can open a women only gym. But the town square shouldn't have a line drawn down the middle to separate the sexes and it be entrenched in law that they separate.

You are clearly not posting in good faith. Try reading what I wrote: "Privacy, safety, and dignity of women when undressed or otherwise vulnerable is always a legitimate aim"

Supporting separate sex options - good.

Removing the option of mixed facilities - bad.

FWIW talking about the removal of "free" anything is not a good starting point for an elected official in a democratic society.

Doesnt sound great!

I mean it would be fine to say “I’m going to provide some single sex spaces for those who want it” - as that sounds sensitive and like offering choice - all good.

But “end free mixing” sounds very controlling and like there will be a move towards not having any mixed spaces. Which is batshit - most of the world should be a free space for everyone.

Utter madness. Cannot believe there is public money to spend on this utter tripe when our NHS and basic statutory services and buckling and not fit for purpose;- education, social services etc.

A huge step backwards for women too. I will be so horrified if tax payers money is used in this way.

They're not essential. I have never been to a single sex swimming session. However, some women feel uncomfortable for a variety of reasons, ranging from men hogging lanes to discomfort being scantily dressed in front of men due to previous sexual abuse, religious beliefs etc. If there is a market for single sex sessions then it is reasonable to have them as an option.

Libraries and theatres may also, if there is a demand, set up single sex sessions. For example, a woman only or a man only book club, would be acceptable provided it's not the only option and there is a facility for mixed sex and the other sex.

So should we have men only sessions then too?

not every woman wants to have women only gym sessions.

Who is upset with what? What are you on about?

@IDareSay

I'm not clear what the difference is between your argument and what this councillor is advocating.

Her view is that some women don't feel comfortable sharing spaces with men, so there should be single sex spaces to protect their privacy and dignity.

Isn't that exactly what gender critical groups are campaigning for?

No, I’m happy mixing with men in day to day life and wouldn’t want to have restrictions for either men or women in doing day to day things.

The only places it should be segregated is where private/intimate things are taking place or if someone is in danger. Ie toilets, changing areas, breast feeding groups, sleeping areas, domestic violence, prisons.

I think the provision of specialist groups for different people is fine ie children’s hours, elderly groups, beginners groups etc and we already do this adequately.

It's interesting that you label these women as 'anti-trans' instead of women's rights campaigners, isn’t it? Its very clear whose rights you prioritise in this.

I think you know full well that the majority of women's rights campaigners don't want to segregate every aspect of life by sex, and are misrepresenting our views in order to score some kind of political point.

Feminists care about the retention of single sex spaces, mainly for safety reasons in vulnerable spaces. Whilst it's nice to extend that to having female-only hobby clubs and the like (mainly to eliminate sexual harassment and to enable to lesbians to associate freely), we realise it's not ideal and personally wouldn't want to segregate every part of public life by sex. Most women's rights campaigners are agnostic, atheist and centre-left in their overall politics. That's not a coincidence. There's a few very loud religious right wing people who've joined the same campaigning for the last few years for very different ideological reasons, but that doesn't dimmish the cause.

Just over 10 years ago, this view that women should have single-sex spaced and that sex is binary & biology based would have been totally normal, and only a few loons would have believed otherwise. It's unfortunate then that so many have been bullied & harassed into believing something that's akin to the emperor's new clothes.

Hell no, I'm fairly comfortable with immigration where people largely assimilate to the host nation and certainly accept the existing values, but this is totally unacceptable.