To ask if you are not a Christian, what non Christian values you live by?

[BlossomBlanket]

Just that really!

With the empire and colonisation, a big part of the rationale for it, was to spread the word of God, and bring Christianity to the heathen. It was a part of it, a justification for it, a perceived benefit. . .

Yep, and the atrocities committed in the name of "spreading the word" speak volumes about "Christian values".

I guess the priority really was homogeneity rather than "the common good".

The Roman Catholic Church is particular was at the forefront of European colonialism, with Papal declarations justifying the claiming if unoccupied (...by Christians) lands and the subjugation (and/or assimilation) of non-Christian peoples.

The British Empire itself was actually a bit late to the party, by comparison to the Church, which had already (by Papal declarations) justified Spanish and Portuguese colonialism.

While the Church did come to denounce slavery relatively quickly after first endorsing it, it continued to engage in (what we would now deem) crimes against humanity, against non-Christians, well into the 20th century.

💨👡👋

You don’t think you are responsible for your own happiness?

The struggle between good and evil, with humans able to choose their path through free will, predates Christianity by many years. Zoroastrianism is the first monotheistic religion that teaches this. The teachings also discuss living your life by ‘good thoughts, good words and good deeds’, so any of the so-called Christian values that align with this are actually Zoroastrian. Hope that helps, OP.

I think we are absolutely responsible for our own happiness. I've been through some things that I will not bore you all with - if anything those times taught me that no matter how bad things are, there are always things that bring joy, and it's on you to be aware enough to see them, reach out to them and make them part of your life.

I agree. I appreciate I’ve been very fortunate in life but am very much of a cup half full person anyway and everything can be better with a positive mindset.

“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs." JC

@Parker231

What does that mean?

@FathomsbelowAt least have the common sense to explain yourself. Your recent posts are very bizarre and lend nothing to the debate.

Who’s JC?

Someone I have my initials in common with 😂.

😂😂 It’s okay - I’ve figured it out. It was the pig reference that gave it away. Sounds exactly like something Jeremy Clarkson would say ;)

Are some of the critics confusing (by accident or design) Christianity with the teachings and agenda of the Church of England/Scotland or the Roman Catholic or other Christian religions?

The Bible taken not literally, particularly the new testament has parables and teachings of Christ. The old testament being part of Jewish scripture is acknowledged in the new testament but Jesus caution s about it.

The main "rules" copy a lot of what may have been previous "rules" and general don't murder, don't lie, don't steal as well as follow the religions teaching.
Homosexuality will have been as prevalent in 1 AD as it is now, but a crime. Slavery was legal then.
There is mention that homosexual relations were not exactly a good thing, but a great many.other "transgressions" get a great deal censureship.

In Christianity slavery is not condemned, but is not encouraged and the message be good to your slaves is a lot more than the attitude of some beliefs who actively encourage the taking of slaves.

I'm not sure I understand what point you're making exactly.

I agree with you that the Bible is obviously of its time, but for me, that in itself is a key bit of evidence which leads me to the conclusion that it is very much the work of human beings and not the word of God.

I can well believe that exhorting people to be good to their slaves may have been incredibly progressive at the time, but I would expect a much more radical vision from a God who would not be limited by the social norms of the era. l would expect God's teachings to transcend time and place, and to speak to universal truths which we can all get on board with. Yes, the NT is closer to that than the OT, but it isn't quite there yet, and I can't really reconcile that with the idea of it being the words of an infallible God.

Are some of the critics confusing (by accident or design) Christianity with the teachings and agenda of the Church of England/Scotland or the Roman Catholic or other Christian religions?
No, I don't think so.

But when the OP's thesis is that the reason for modern day ills is because society is less Christian than it once was, and is yearning for the good old days when we all shared Christian morals, then what those "good old days" actually entailed, and the negative ways in which those shared morals manifested, becomes more relevant.

It's also relevant to working out what, exactly, Christian morals are (which is a challenge when they have been diverse and transient).

Exactly. The OP is looking back to a golden era that never existed.

I actually think that's understandable, but that doesn't mean it should not be challenged. 'Golden Era' thinking is what's brought us Trump, Orban and Reform.

Absolutely.

There's no way I could accept that a book that tacitcly endorses slavery is the word of a benevolent, omniscient and timeless God.

If it isn't the word of God, and is "of its time" (even a little ahead of its time), then I dont think anyone should be putting much stock in it as a moral guide today.

Thanks, you've articulated what I want to say in a much better way than I was able to do.

I'm pretty sure that it means that @Fathomsbelow thinks she is above us, and that her precious pearls of wisdom shouldn't be wasted on us.

It's a shame that humility doesn't appear to make it onto the list of Christian values that certain types of Christian choose to abide by.

@BlossomBlanket BlossomBlanket · Yesterday 15:31

"That was before technology. What happens when we only need to depend on our tech overlords for survival, genuine question."

Since 'our tech overlords' have taken charge of so much of our existence, our life expectancy and birth rates have begun to stall or have fallen.

I've always been attracted to James Lovelock's Gaia hypothesis:

"The Gaia hypothesis, named after the ancient Greek goddess of Earth, posits that Earth and its biological systems behave as a huge single entity. This entity has closely controlled self-regulatory negative feedback loops that keep the conditions on the planet within boundaries that are favorable to life."

I wonder if some planetary intelligence has now clocked that mankind has become a terrible threat to the earth's homeostasis and has decided to wipe us all out to reinstate equilibrium. In my fevered imagination the 'tech overlords' and Trump are the human bacteria that's been farted into existence to wipe us all out, through a more rapid descent into climate catastrophe and population failure.

Here's hoping for a continuation thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5337561-part-2-to-as-if-you-are-not-a-christian-what-non-christian-values-you-live-by?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

new thread for a continuation