To ask if you are not a Christian, what non Christian values you live by?

[BlossomBlanket]

Just that really!

Absolutely! The Hare Krishnas seem increasingly well represented in town, too. . .

Lack of a shared sense of the common good and the implications of this

What do you mean exactly by having a "shared sense of the common good"? What would that look like from your perspective?

And what exactly do you perceive to be the implications of not having that shared sense?

Do you think there has ever been a period in which we have had a shared sense of the common good? If so, when was that?

By a lack of a shared sense of the common good, what specifically do you mean, may I ask?

Do you mean an homogeneity of belief of what this looks like?

Throughout most of history, communities and societies had more or less a greater sense of a common good. We left our back doors open so the neighbours children could come and go and didn't lock our doors at night. It was safer and there was less crime. Sure there have always been problems. But even places now which claim about having great communities are still a shadow of what they were 50 years ago. Any old person will say that.

The implications of losing a shared sense of common good are an increasing proportion of the population feeling left behind and a sense of having things done to them - rather than having any kind of stake in the polity, they're a problem which will be managed with increasing authoritarianism, the greatest threats to national security will be those within the state, not external. It leads to tyranny. A society can't build anything good if it can't agree on the fundamentals, it can only manage the discontent. We need to be able to live alongside each other, fruitfully and trustfully. Social trust has collapsed almost entirely. We can't agree on when life begins, what men or women are, what rights we should have in terms of freedom of speech. It creates a very adversarial society. A loss of shared norms. Anomie. And it causes all manner of pathology, not least crime, anti social behaviour, but most of all, it is bad for us in the deepest physical sense, we are social beings and this environment creates a lot of physical and emotional stress

OK, your issues are becoming clearer now. This is not so much about the common good, but rather your perceptions about the degree of homogeneity within your community. You want to feel everyone else is like you?

All of those things are happening,but I would argue they are due less to a lack of religion than to untrammelled economic liberalism. And the voices speaking out against that are a mix of the secular and the religious. I am very pleased with the new Pope in that sense.

The rest of the things you raise are all about toxic nostalgia. Trans people have always existed - they just had to hide. Why would you want to go back to that? Abortion has always happened. It's just that fortunately it is now safe and legal in many places. Why do you want to go back to the days when women died of illegal backstreet abortions, as they still do in many places? We are living in tough times in many ways, but there are still many good things happening. I wish you could open your eyes and see them. Your glass is too darkly.

I'm delighted to hear you're pleased with the pope but confused as he doesn't approve of abortion or irregular family structures. I have no idea what you mean by "trans people".

We all do. Which is why so many youngsters are clinging to virtual synthetic identities so don't bother with the sneering 'gotcha'.

Speak for yourself. I quite like the greater diversity.

FWIW, it was an observation rather than a sneer. But feel free to interpret it as you wish.

I don’t care what the pope thinks but am supportive of a women’s right to a safe abortion. Unfortunately parts of the US are removing womens rights to their healthcare and choices over their own bodies.

I don't see a sneer either, but then I am also not threatened by diversity. What do you mean by 'synthetic identities'? Humans gave always sought out their 'tribes'. Goths, nerds, punks, teddy boys, mods, rockers - all identities chosen by young people then and now. We're all still here. Life would be hideously boring if we were all identical conformist drones.

One doesn't expect a pope to be in favour of abortion. But this pope and his predecessor are solid on inequality and social justice, and Francis' language towards gay people was a vast improvement on what went before.

You know what a trans person is. You aren't that remote from the world. If you are, there's Google.

Two gays friends want a church wedding which is currently not available to them. Hopefully church's, including the pope will start being less discriminatory and more inclusive.

Ah yes. Attempted insults. Do you actually understand what a straw man is?

Let me simplify things, as you struggle with comprehension and are very selective in the posts you respond to. You are closed minded because you are not willing to accept that maybe, just maybe, god doesn’t, exist despite all of the evidence that, to an open minded person, at the very least casts very significant doubt.

In a nutshell, your position is that there is a god, and that god created you all and a moral framework that is good. You are not open to any debate as to whether, why or how that can be true.

The position of atheists, broadly, is that we don’t believe there’s a god, but show us some convincing fact based evidence and we are open to being convinced.

The problem is, when a christian says to an atheist that of course there’s a god and he (why is it a he…?) created everything the atheist says “I don’t believe that, can you prove it.” And the come back is, oh it’s above these details like facts, you just have to believe.

So, forgive me for laughing uproariously when a christian calls a non christian closed minded 😂😂😂

I don't remember goths ever demanding special legal privileges and seeking to destroy the lives of those who didn't agree

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/may/15/pregnant-georgia-woman-brain-dead-abortion-law

Thus is what happens when the religious right take over in the US.

And the church liked nothing better than introducing fear as a control mechanism, did it. How else did it become the wealthiest organisation of its time? And that wealth was hoarded not freely used to help the poor. They just got a few scraps.

So I don’t think that makes the point you think it’s making. The church was just as abusive of the poor in its time as meta and google are today.

This point of view feels a little too Reform-like for my liking. But it’s good to peel back the layers so the real thinking is revealed…

Religious types are going to hate what has evolved in the animal kingdom then. I am sure they’ll be claiming this as proof that god created animals, not that they’ve developed the skills to treat injuries ;)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqj7ln85vxwo#:~:text=University%20of%20Oxford%20scientists%2C%20working,certain%20plants%20to%20self%2Dmedicate.

What, you mean like religious people have done and are still doing all over the world? Who in your opinion is demanding special legal privileges and destroying the lives of those who don't agree? I'm not saying that this doesn't happen, but I'm not seeing non-believers doing it.

And before you come out with China, North Korea and other allegedly non religious countries - well, China has set up the Communist Party as their deity, and North Korea has the cult of personality around the Kim family. Both are cults.

Who is seeking to destroy the lives of those who didn’t agree?

We won't get an answer. Bet you anything

I'm extremely grateful we've moved away from a homogeneous society where moral authority rests with the Church. Despite making some (in my view) positive contributions to the development of moral philosophy, Christianity upheld and promoted sexism, racism, homophobia and other evils for far too long, and actively engaged in atrocities against humans of the wrong "tribe".

Is modern society experiencing issues in adapting to technological leaps? Absolutely. But to paint this as some sort of unique crisis of morality, caused by people turning away from Christianity, while seemingly brushing off some of the historic atrocities in which the Church engaged as akin to "growing pains", is deeply hypocritical.

The OP, in particular, seems to yearn specifically for Christian society of just a few generations ago, apparently thinking that represented some sort of moral highpoint of civilization. In that era, Christian churches were heavily involved in the Residential Schools system in Canada - e.g., the widespread, forcable removal of First Nations children from their families, in an attempt to Christianize them, that saw widespread child abuse and neglect, leaving a grave legacy of intergenerational trauma. It represented a manifestation of the desire for cultural homogenity, for which the OP is advocating.

If there ever was a "golden age of Christian morality" is was only "golden" for (some) white, Christian people and often only by comparison to what came before it. I absolutely would not want to wind back the clock.

Totally agree.

Where were the Christian values when we profited from the slave trade, when we invaded half of the world in order to exploit it, when we left the poor in our own country to rot in workhouses etc.

The golden age that the OP imagines never existed.