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Part 2 - To as if you are not a Christian , what non Christian values you live by

65 replies

Parker231 · 18/05/2025 20:28

Follow on from the earlier thread

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 18/05/2025 20:33

Thank you @Parker231.

QuaintShaker · 18/05/2025 20:35

Thanks for starting this, just placemarking for now and hoping the discussion will continue (the last few pages of the old thread were a bit one-sided, so hoping we'll see the original OP reappear in this one).

KarCat · 18/05/2025 20:35

Personally, I just live.
I am kind to people, I help whenever I can.
I don’t need a belief system in a “god” to help me live a decent life.
I equally don’t judge people that do, life can be a struggle sometimes, but it’s also amazing that we are here.
I do however object to people trying to force their beliefs onto me.
For instance I never get atheists knocking on my door trying to tell me about their beliefs, but I do get the opposite approach from religious people.

pointythings · 18/05/2025 20:47

KarCat · 18/05/2025 20:35

Personally, I just live.
I am kind to people, I help whenever I can.
I don’t need a belief system in a “god” to help me live a decent life.
I equally don’t judge people that do, life can be a struggle sometimes, but it’s also amazing that we are here.
I do however object to people trying to force their beliefs onto me.
For instance I never get atheists knocking on my door trying to tell me about their beliefs, but I do get the opposite approach from religious people.

I do enjoy a respectful debate with religious people, and I've met many with whom that is perfectly possible. Not all that long ago I had a really good conversation with a JW - never met one who was so respectful of my position as an atheist. He put his case, I put mine, we courteously agreed to disagree.

But then he didn't claim to own morality.

BlossomBlanket · 18/05/2025 20:58

I don't think the OP will be back

NestEmptying · 18/05/2025 20:59

Non-Christian values? The Life of Brian had some good ones. Don't blindly follow someone without thinking it though. You've got to work it out for yourselves... You're all individuals...

QuaintShaker · 18/05/2025 21:02

BlossomBlanket · 18/05/2025 20:58

I don't think the OP will be back

👋

CurlewKate · 19/05/2025 03:23

I’m not a humanist- but I like what Tim Minchin said “Having a non-superstitious world view allows you to go about your business making ethical choices based on a general desire to do the most possible good”

Parker231 · 19/05/2025 07:10

CurlewKate · 19/05/2025 03:23

I’m not a humanist- but I like what Tim Minchin said “Having a non-superstitious world view allows you to go about your business making ethical choices based on a general desire to do the most possible good”

Like that quote!

OP posts:
Tryingtokeepgoing · 19/05/2025 12:46

BlossomBlanket · 18/05/2025 20:58

I don't think the OP will be back

Will the lord be happy that you have given up your crusade ;)

But at least the rest of us can reflect on how inclusivity, intelligent debate and human decency always triumph over religious bigotry. So that’s a blessing indeed ☺️

Koalafan · 19/05/2025 12:47

I don't see any values as being inherently christian tbh. I just treat others as I'd wish to be treated.

BlossomBlanket · 19/05/2025 18:03

Tryingtokeepgoing · 19/05/2025 12:46

Will the lord be happy that you have given up your crusade ;)

But at least the rest of us can reflect on how inclusivity, intelligent debate and human decency always triumph over religious bigotry. So that’s a blessing indeed ☺️

That's really quite nasty. I'm stepping back because I find it difficult to not to retaliate to this kind of baiting.

Tryingtokeepgoing · 19/05/2025 18:06

BlossomBlanket · 19/05/2025 18:03

That's really quite nasty. I'm stepping back because I find it difficult to not to retaliate to this kind of baiting.

I’m sorry that you see reality as baiting. You have been very happy to denigrate atheists in your posts. It wasn’t my intention to offend.

BlossomBlanket · 19/05/2025 18:16

Tryingtokeepgoing · 19/05/2025 18:06

I’m sorry that you see reality as baiting. You have been very happy to denigrate atheists in your posts. It wasn’t my intention to offend.

It was your clear intention to offend. Do quote where I denigrated atheists, because I genuinely believe I have not done so, if you highlight where I have then I have an opportunity to reflect.

Tryingtokeepgoing · 19/05/2025 19:25

BlossomBlanket · 19/05/2025 18:16

It was your clear intention to offend. Do quote where I denigrated atheists, because I genuinely believe I have not done so, if you highlight where I have then I have an opportunity to reflect.

You might interpret it that way, but you have managed to interpret many things incorrectly so I am not surprised. It was not my intention though. I can lay it out for you. I can’t make you understand it. The very premise of your original thread was to bait atheists, and you alone managed to make 6 pages of posts on that, so it’s a bit rich to feel that one post over more than 40 pages is baiting you! Despite that, all of those who don’t subscribe to your way of thinking have engaged in good faith and all you could do was studiously ignore the many facts, discussions, debates that didn’t fit your narrow view on the world. You responded to those where you thought you were on safe ground. And often misjudged that.

Here is a sample of some of your more denigratory and / or insulting posts:

In discussion on objective truth, in which you were floundering badly, you posted To put my argument in a nutshell - your morals sound very very Christian to me. Despite your hostility to Christianity, it's moral system is the water you swim in and feels so obviously true. My fear is that atheism seems oblivious to this, and anti-theists are busily sawing away at the branch upon which they stand.

You posted that despite the fact it’s clearly inflammatory to suggest that atheists, somehow, aren’t entitled to have a different view of how morality evolved. Especially as there’s no evidence to support your point of view. We do not, and do not want, to live in Christianity’s moral waters. Firstly, they are too murky for me, and secondly, Christianity has taken an existing moral framework and corrupted it for its own use. Have you ever wondered how the church became so wealthy, and why it hasn’t helped more people at a practical level?

Then of course there’s your reply to a post on how atheists successfully live life without a Christian anchor (after a series of posts explaining why the moral framework claimed by Christians had existed for thousands of years before Christianity and indeed evolved, another word you have a problem with, denigrating that fact I think they don't realise how much they benefit from living at the apex of a civiliansation that was built on Christianty and until very recently has been running on Christian software. To me these happy atheists are like roadrunner who has just run off the edge of the cliff and hasn't yet realised there is nothing beneath their feet.. The typos in the quote are yours

In another post on why Christian’s can’t claim copyright over the moral framework by which the majority of the world live, you posted This conversation is very difficult because one side of the discussion is very entrenched and doesn't actually know their side of the argument well enough

I’m not sure what makes you think you are the arbiter of what others think, but surely even you can see that assuming you do is either (a) patronising (b) offensive and (c) a bit silly when you are clearly so ill informed and closed minded, and probably a combination of all three. Your post was the argument of someone who overestimates their intelligence, but isn’t bright enough to see it.

In a series of posts about how Christianity doesn’t have the final say in morals, where you insisted they did you wrote I would have thought gently coercing people of superior intelligence to procreate would be entirely in the interest of the species survival and flourishing!!

I could go on, but I won’t. I am genuinely amazed that you lack the self awareness to see how you have come across in however many posts 6 pages from you equal.

BlossomBlanket · 19/05/2025 19:54

Tryingtokeepgoing · 19/05/2025 19:25

You might interpret it that way, but you have managed to interpret many things incorrectly so I am not surprised. It was not my intention though. I can lay it out for you. I can’t make you understand it. The very premise of your original thread was to bait atheists, and you alone managed to make 6 pages of posts on that, so it’s a bit rich to feel that one post over more than 40 pages is baiting you! Despite that, all of those who don’t subscribe to your way of thinking have engaged in good faith and all you could do was studiously ignore the many facts, discussions, debates that didn’t fit your narrow view on the world. You responded to those where you thought you were on safe ground. And often misjudged that.

Here is a sample of some of your more denigratory and / or insulting posts:

In discussion on objective truth, in which you were floundering badly, you posted To put my argument in a nutshell - your morals sound very very Christian to me. Despite your hostility to Christianity, it's moral system is the water you swim in and feels so obviously true. My fear is that atheism seems oblivious to this, and anti-theists are busily sawing away at the branch upon which they stand.

You posted that despite the fact it’s clearly inflammatory to suggest that atheists, somehow, aren’t entitled to have a different view of how morality evolved. Especially as there’s no evidence to support your point of view. We do not, and do not want, to live in Christianity’s moral waters. Firstly, they are too murky for me, and secondly, Christianity has taken an existing moral framework and corrupted it for its own use. Have you ever wondered how the church became so wealthy, and why it hasn’t helped more people at a practical level?

Then of course there’s your reply to a post on how atheists successfully live life without a Christian anchor (after a series of posts explaining why the moral framework claimed by Christians had existed for thousands of years before Christianity and indeed evolved, another word you have a problem with, denigrating that fact I think they don't realise how much they benefit from living at the apex of a civiliansation that was built on Christianty and until very recently has been running on Christian software. To me these happy atheists are like roadrunner who has just run off the edge of the cliff and hasn't yet realised there is nothing beneath their feet.. The typos in the quote are yours

In another post on why Christian’s can’t claim copyright over the moral framework by which the majority of the world live, you posted This conversation is very difficult because one side of the discussion is very entrenched and doesn't actually know their side of the argument well enough

I’m not sure what makes you think you are the arbiter of what others think, but surely even you can see that assuming you do is either (a) patronising (b) offensive and (c) a bit silly when you are clearly so ill informed and closed minded, and probably a combination of all three. Your post was the argument of someone who overestimates their intelligence, but isn’t bright enough to see it.

In a series of posts about how Christianity doesn’t have the final say in morals, where you insisted they did you wrote I would have thought gently coercing people of superior intelligence to procreate would be entirely in the interest of the species survival and flourishing!!

I could go on, but I won’t. I am genuinely amazed that you lack the self awareness to see how you have come across in however many posts 6 pages from you equal.

Edited

There were too many posters and comments for me to pick up each strand and deal with substantively, and clearly would be a waste of time.

What I would say, is that increasingly younger people in the West are turning to religion with fresh eyes, perhaps somewhat in rebellion against their atheist parents. Many of New Atheisms figureheads and most devoted advocates have hugely softened their stances. It will be interesting to see how this develops

Flyswats · 19/05/2025 19:55

"Treat others as you would wish to be treated", I think is my main one.

CurlewKate · 19/05/2025 20:01

What do you mean by New atheists “softening their stance”?

BlossomBlanket · 19/05/2025 20:06

CurlewKate · 19/05/2025 20:01

What do you mean by New atheists “softening their stance”?

Alex O'connor, Richard Dawkins, Ayan Hirsi Ali hasn't just softened but converted.

QuaintShaker · 19/05/2025 20:08

BlossomBlanket · 19/05/2025 19:54

There were too many posters and comments for me to pick up each strand and deal with substantively, and clearly would be a waste of time.

What I would say, is that increasingly younger people in the West are turning to religion with fresh eyes, perhaps somewhat in rebellion against their atheist parents. Many of New Atheisms figureheads and most devoted advocates have hugely softened their stances. It will be interesting to see how this develops

Edited

I suspect the rise in religiosity, that seems to be confined to young men, is more a rebellion against women and feminism than a rebellioun against atheism.

BlossomBlanket · 19/05/2025 20:09

Tryingtokeepgoing · 19/05/2025 19:25

You might interpret it that way, but you have managed to interpret many things incorrectly so I am not surprised. It was not my intention though. I can lay it out for you. I can’t make you understand it. The very premise of your original thread was to bait atheists, and you alone managed to make 6 pages of posts on that, so it’s a bit rich to feel that one post over more than 40 pages is baiting you! Despite that, all of those who don’t subscribe to your way of thinking have engaged in good faith and all you could do was studiously ignore the many facts, discussions, debates that didn’t fit your narrow view on the world. You responded to those where you thought you were on safe ground. And often misjudged that.

Here is a sample of some of your more denigratory and / or insulting posts:

In discussion on objective truth, in which you were floundering badly, you posted To put my argument in a nutshell - your morals sound very very Christian to me. Despite your hostility to Christianity, it's moral system is the water you swim in and feels so obviously true. My fear is that atheism seems oblivious to this, and anti-theists are busily sawing away at the branch upon which they stand.

You posted that despite the fact it’s clearly inflammatory to suggest that atheists, somehow, aren’t entitled to have a different view of how morality evolved. Especially as there’s no evidence to support your point of view. We do not, and do not want, to live in Christianity’s moral waters. Firstly, they are too murky for me, and secondly, Christianity has taken an existing moral framework and corrupted it for its own use. Have you ever wondered how the church became so wealthy, and why it hasn’t helped more people at a practical level?

Then of course there’s your reply to a post on how atheists successfully live life without a Christian anchor (after a series of posts explaining why the moral framework claimed by Christians had existed for thousands of years before Christianity and indeed evolved, another word you have a problem with, denigrating that fact I think they don't realise how much they benefit from living at the apex of a civiliansation that was built on Christianty and until very recently has been running on Christian software. To me these happy atheists are like roadrunner who has just run off the edge of the cliff and hasn't yet realised there is nothing beneath their feet.. The typos in the quote are yours

In another post on why Christian’s can’t claim copyright over the moral framework by which the majority of the world live, you posted This conversation is very difficult because one side of the discussion is very entrenched and doesn't actually know their side of the argument well enough

I’m not sure what makes you think you are the arbiter of what others think, but surely even you can see that assuming you do is either (a) patronising (b) offensive and (c) a bit silly when you are clearly so ill informed and closed minded, and probably a combination of all three. Your post was the argument of someone who overestimates their intelligence, but isn’t bright enough to see it.

In a series of posts about how Christianity doesn’t have the final say in morals, where you insisted they did you wrote I would have thought gently coercing people of superior intelligence to procreate would be entirely in the interest of the species survival and flourishing!!

I could go on, but I won’t. I am genuinely amazed that you lack the self awareness to see how you have come across in however many posts 6 pages from you equal.

Edited

I wonder, if I'm so stupid and such a thick idiot, what nerve I have hit for you to spend this long dissecting my posts! What is really going on here? I've been vastly outnumbered in this discussion by people very hostile to my worldview, why are you spending your precious time trying to kick me while I'm down?

BlossomBlanket · 19/05/2025 20:10

QuaintShaker · 19/05/2025 20:08

I suspect the rise in religiosity, that seems to be confined to young men, is more a rebellion against women and feminism than a rebellioun against atheism.

What are you basing this on?

pointythings · 19/05/2025 20:11

QuaintShaker · 19/05/2025 20:08

I suspect the rise in religiosity, that seems to be confined to young men, is more a rebellion against women and feminism than a rebellioun against atheism.

I agree with this. Young men aren't going to find obedient little women anywhere else. I think there's probably a subset of Gen Z who are turning to religion because life is tough right now - but I wonder how long their devotion is going to last when nothing changes. And what I see among my DCs' peers is very far from increased interest in Christianity - it would be interesting, for example, to see whether we are also seeing a rise in paganism.

I note that OP from the last thread hasn't bothered to address a single point made by pp around how disrespectful and dismissive she was of atheists. No insight or no excuses?

pointythings · 19/05/2025 20:13

BlossomBlanket · 19/05/2025 20:09

I wonder, if I'm so stupid and such a thick idiot, what nerve I have hit for you to spend this long dissecting my posts! What is really going on here? I've been vastly outnumbered in this discussion by people very hostile to my worldview, why are you spending your precious time trying to kick me while I'm down?

Nobody is trying to kick you. We're pointing out that you have been rude, dismissive and belittling to atheists. If you really can't see that, you need to do some reflecting on how you communicate.

BlossomBlanket · 19/05/2025 20:16

pointythings · 19/05/2025 20:13

Nobody is trying to kick you. We're pointing out that you have been rude, dismissive and belittling to atheists. If you really can't see that, you need to do some reflecting on how you communicate.

Double standards. Humans be humaning 😁 have a nice evening