To ask if you are not a Christian, what non Christian values you live by?

[BlossomBlanket]

Just that really!

Well, whatever causes the mental health problems, the medication does at least seem to help in most cases.

If not medication, what do you think is the solution instead? I hope that you're not going to suggest that the church has any answers, as it offered nothing to help my very devout family members when they were struggling.

I think every generation thinks they are living at the apex of human civilisation. You still have this unrelentingly bleak view of humanity - I have news for you: not everyone shares it and it is no more than your view as an individual.

As for what we atheists have beneath our feet - we have the same morals that sustained us waaaaaay back in the Neolithic and before. They make sense. They work.

Everything that capitalism is robbing us of. We are lonely, isolated, anxious, depressed, we're porn addled, SSRI addicted, miserable and at each others throats.

Again, speak for yourself. Capitalism needs curbing - but do you think there was no exploitation, no greed, no lust for money in the good old days when Christianity ruled the rules? Your perception of everyone as miserable couldn't be more wrong.

Edited to add - look around you anywhere you go. The older the building, the more beautiful, churches, hospitals, schools, town halls, the newer the uglier. Because all that matters now is the bottom line. Ugly advertising and depressing building replaces beauty.

Again, just your opinion. There are great, beautiful, wonderful new buildings. There are old, hideous ones. You have closed your eyes to everything that is good and beautiful in the modern world and are bathing in toxic nostalgia.

I wasn't. Have I been doing that on this thread? People have the impression I'm some spokesperson from Westboro Baptist

Yes, I do. And you are treading on dangerous ground - almost as if you are saying that 1) Depression isn't real, and 2) Depression is always purely situational.

Depression was recognised well before Christianity came along. It was explained in a variety of ways, demonic possession among them, and was treated in ways we would consider barbaric, i.e. beating, starvation and imprisonment. Only a few of the slightly later physicians took a more enlightened view.

Depression these days is recognised as a complex condition in which brain chemistry plays a part, but many other factors do too. Almost as if... the world is a complicated place. I would like to see some links to the scientists you say believe that the brain chemistry theory is completely unfounded - peer reviewed scientific papers only, please - and then I'll read them to see if they say what you think they say.

BTW, other medications than SSRIs are available, precisely because they have been recognised as not being very effective. My DS is on antidepressants which are not SSRIs. They have massively improved his quality of life. His depression is in part situational (serious trauma in adolescence) but is also physical and associated with a physical health condition he has - this is well documented.

You seem to be suggesting that if only we went back to the good old days, all this depression would disapper. It wouldn't. People had depression back then, they just tended to self medicate with alcohol, sleeping pills and other things.

Honestly, your dismissal of mental ill health except as an adjunct of godlessness in society is offensive.

Well, I don't know, you seem to think that things were so much better when Christianity was more dominant, and that all of these problems have only arisen since people started to drift away from the church. But perhaps you aren't saying that, and I have misunderstood.

Either way, you really do seem to have quite a bleak view of modern society. I'm sorry about that, and I hope that you will find a way of reframing things in a more positive manner at some point.

- I have news for you: not everyone shares it and it is no more than your view as an individual.

There is PLENTY of published theory on this that you're clearly blissfully unaware of, I am very very far from alone in this view. Your view is shared by Steven Pinker and - who else?

"As for what we atheists have beneath our feet - we have the same morals that sustained us waaaaaay back in the Neolithic and before. They make sense. They work." - what are they? Does this have a name? And there any theorists or authors you can recommend who summarise this more clearly than you've been able to? It sounds a little like Perennialism

Can I ask how old you are, OP?

You seem to have a very dismissive attitude to life. Atheism doesn’t mean we lack morals. Life is good - can’t think of anything which would make it better.

I don't think they realise how much they benefit from living in a civilisation that has cast off the shackles of religion to become a moral, decent society. Look back even at fairly modern history and how awful it was for most to live in a Christian country where poverty was seen as deserved and crimes committed out of desperation were punished in the most brutal ways, even when committed by children.

I am extremely grateful that we are now nearing a truly secular civilisation and we are the furthest from the immorality and cruelty that religions such as Christianity inflicted on millions for centuries.

It's very rare, but a virgin can actually get pregnant and give birth @Parker231 but that's not relevant here. What's your understanding of how Jesus was conceived?

There is only one way to conceive - same way for everyone. Back to school biology class everyone!

There is PLENTY of published theory on this that you're clearly blissfully unaware of
What kind and by what branch of science? And what evidence do they have that the happiness experienced by the people around me is not real?

As for your second question? That's just you saying for the umpteenth time on this thread that the only real morals are religious ones. We will never agree on that.

I do think that if you are really feeling this low about life, the world and everything, you should probably seek out some support. Your religious community may help, or failing that some counselling or mindfulness so you can open your eyes to all the beauty and goodness in the world and the people around you. You're missing out, and you deserve happiness.

With the development of IVF, a couple doesn't need to have sex to have a baby now @Parker231. If humans can do this, how much more the creator of the universe! With God all things are possible - Mary's conception was a supernatural event. Joseph was not Jesus' biological father, although they did go on to have children after being married.

I wouldn't be able to answer that question without saying things that some might find offensive.

Suffice to say that not everyone buys into the idea of the virgin birth.

I think in practice it would be very difficult for a virgin to give birth via IVF, because a reputable clinic would expect to see a fertility journey including attempts at conception by the traditional method - but of course non reputable providers do exist. As a thought experiment it's an interesting one though.

IVF is still the sperm and egg meetings and growing in the womb . A virgin birth doesn’t exist - please refer back to your biology classes. If conception can be a supernatural event - please list people born this way.

I appreciate you holding back @MrsBennetsPoorNerves although I'm not sure you could say anything I haven't already heard a hundred times :)

I would really hope nobody is trying it @pointythings. Having said that, plenty of single women -some of them virgins- have had babies through artificial insemination.

That's the point - there has only been one @Parker231.

Where the evidence ? There is none. There is a reason we are atheists is that there is no evidence to make us believe differently.

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For that I grant you, there is no evidence @Parker231. When Jesus asked his disciple Peter "Who do you say I am?" Peter replied “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus told him, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven."

God's Holy Spirit works on the heart of true believers. When you know, you know.

I believe in facts and not imaginary gods who want you to worship but uses threats, rules and punishment. If god existed and was so wonderful, he would do good things.

All good things come from God @Parker231.
I wish you goodnight.

Or, at least, you think you know.

But with respect, you don't actually know. You just fervently believe. And good for you if that makes you happy.

Some of us take a different path, and that's OK too. Even if you don't think so.

And where were we for the hundreds of thousand of years before so called Christianity…. Oh yes, in the same place. Christianity has existed for around 5% of the lifespan of humans. One could take the view that that 5% has been the most tumultuous, conflict and strife ridden period of human history…

It is interesting to me that Christians are so insecure their own beliefs at that they cannot bear it when others, and evidence, don’t subscribe to their narrow views of human nature, society and evolution. I don’t understand why, if they are so convinced that their stories are right, they don’t just enjoy their take on the world, but accept that other people, believe different things. Never mind that other people are probably right - just enjoy your own beliefs and let others enjoy reality :)