AAAAGH Reform. Are people ignoring the racist?

[Peasnbeans]

And that he's no economist skills yet promising the impossible. And a racist. And mysoginist.

If Mumsnet is full of women, how is no-one talking about Reform and limiting women's rights?
I know I'll get flamed for this, but it is a boiling frog situation! Jump out!
And I didn't choose the AIBU board but I looked down all the Current Threads and this didn't feature.

Why is it not fair to single out Islam? Are any other religions setting up their own courts, forcing heretics into hiding, or organising mobs outside of schools? I won’t even get a direct answer to that

We have had record numbers of millionaires/billionaires over the last 15 or so years, yet zero growth, collapsing public services, low skills, lower wage growth etc etc
Per capita more than almost all European countries, who have NOT had these issues

So what did they add to the UK ? or maybe our problems are caused by pandering to these people?

Some ultra religious Jews have their own religious courts called Beth Dins and live quite separately from more liberal Jews and non-Jews.

However, as with my Jewish family who came to the UK to escape the pogroms in the 1880s, some of them have completely assimilated and married 'out' and have become less religious or not religious at all, while others have not.

I didn’t imply that at all but you have to acknowledge that it is an actively practised part of the religion, albeit by a minority.

Incidentally that same minority would very much like to actively practise their extremist views here and as Muslims gain political power in this country and are answerable first on other Muslims (see the lack of rejection or condemnation of the Muslim grooming gangs by their community), there is great scope for problems in the future.

You do raise a very good point though . WHERE ARE THE WOMEN?? Why have all these men on small boats abandoned with wives and mothers to fend for themselves in a war torn country that hates women to come over here and sit in a hotel?? The know an asylum application can take years.

No-one is setting up their own courts and I don’t know what you’re talking about re heretics or mobs outside schools so can’t comment.

When I leave my house sometimes people passing by give me and each other that look and I guess they're thinking exactly what you're thinking. That I am immigrant who has been handed everything on a plate. Yes, I am a child of immigrants and I own my home (years of hard work and working my way through the education system). My parents encouraged me to become a homeowner and gave me the "immigrant talk" about how I would have to work harder than others to achieve anything. Their encouragement paid off.

Instead of jealously wondering how others live you could spend some time encouraging your children to start saving to own their own homes (and you can start that when they are babies - which is what my parents did for me, literally saving up pennies).

Instead of telling people that the "immigrants" are stealing the lives that they should be living Reform should be teaching people how to progress through life like the immigrants who started with nothing and contrary to what you believe were NOT given handouts but lived the harshest of lives in the worst housing and doing the worst jobs, hassled by racists who wanted to keep them down. However they still managed to make something of themselves and to see their children thrive. And most importantly many - like my parents - managed to keep themselves from getting as bitter and twisted as you seem to be.

Lack of Muslim rejection or condemnation of grooming gangs? Like this you mean?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-23087686

or this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28951612

or this https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gang-newcastle-asian-pakistani-bangladeshi-muslim-response-faith-leaders-operation-shelter-police-convictions-a7888946.html

By your own logic the news should be full of men apologising for and condemning men every single day. But it’s not, weird that huh?

Try this - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/17/islamic-protests-uk-schools-blasphemy-security-threat-warn/

@springbirdss "But no, we should keep demonising asylum seekers living in poverty."

"Living in poverty", my Fat Aunt !

Asylum seekers are living in 3-4 star hotels, with full board and housekeeping services.eg the Holiday Inn Express at Hoylake, Wirral

https://holidayinnexpresshoylakeanihg.360liverpoolhotels.com/en/

Doesn't look like poverty to me.

The Britannia Hotel Metropole Blackpool looks OK as well for it's foreign "visitors"

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=hotel+metropole+blackpool#lpg=cid:CgIgAQ%3D%3D

No, I don't believe that extreme concentrations of wealth are beneficial to the economy at all. Fairer taxation and redistribution would do wonders for our public services, even just a 1-2% wealth tax on assets over £10 million.
There is nothing to side-step here.

https://www.refugee-action.org.uk/heartbreak-hotels/#:~:text=The%20way%20hotels%20are%20being,as%20sanitary%20products%20and%20medication.

Broaden your sources.

You must remember the teacher in Yorkshire that has gone into hiding because of Muslim mob outside his school?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-68659435.amp

Paywall so can’t read the story but remember the protests. Yes awful and badly handled, not sure I’d condemn an entire religion over that though, just like I don’t think these people speak for all Christians https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14571621/Christians-protest-outside-primary-school-disgraceful-scrapping-Easter-service-respect-religions.html

Yes I do now, thanks - as I’ve responded above though, I’m not sure one bunch of nutters is sufficient to damn an entire world religion.

ETA: I realise there are plenty of nutters in all world religions btw, but I think they are fairly evenly distributed.

Interesting. Are you suggesting that the BBC has a huge right wing bias? That’ll be news to them 🤣

I’m afraid I can’t take people seriously when they use phrases like “constant spewing of bile”. It’s really not clear what point you are trying to make? ‘Everyone who wants immigration controls is racist’? Or ‘people who object to vast numbers of undocumented men who have a higher incidence of criminality than the norm being housed next to their kids school are racist’?

Could you explain your point more succinctly?

It’s not about ‘poor billionaires’! We need them more than they need citizenship of this country.

You may be unaware that the top 1% already pay almost a third of all our tax income and their money gives them choices. Choices to live overseas if our tax regime gets punitive.

It’s such a lazy left wing trope ‘tax the rich!’, forgetting that the last Labour government to hike up the tax rates on top earners caused a mass exodus and a drop in tax income. The politics of envy are not economically sound.

The top 1% of earners pay almost 30% of all our tax revenue so maybe it’s not the fault of the billionaires but the mismanagement by our government?

😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆

Yes but the richest 1% own almost 50% of all financial assets. So is 30% really enough?

Impressed by whatever contortions you had to perform to get that out of what I wrote.

Or, to put it another way, what?

Can you explain your workings on that? I’m not following your economic thought process.

As I said previously, experience has taught us that taxing the rich above a certain level just means that they take themselves and all their money elsewhere because they have choices. Then we lose out.

Envy is not a good economic strategy, as this government are learning.

I already said I disagreed with all organised religion. I’m talking about Islam as the majority of young African men coming over in small boats are from countries where Islam is the predominant religion.

I also said that Sharis councils had no legal standing but rather was pointing out that the fact they even exist shows a willingness for sharia law principles and practices.

I really don’t understand people who think that because we have “home grown” misogyny and hate then it’s ok to import it too. Allowing in thousands of men from countries where cultural practices are abhorrent to us is not some sort of antidote to home grown problems.

‘In the year ending June 2024, the UK granted asylum to 620 people on the basis of sexual orientation. Uganda had the highest proportion of grants based on sexual orientation, with 55% of their asylum claims granted. Pakistan accounted for the largest number of LGB asylum applications in 2023, with 42% of all LGB applications.

Specific Data Points:
Grants based on sexual orientation: 620 grants were made in the year ending June 2024.

High grant rates: Uganda (55%), Iran (52%), and Jamaica (37%) had the highest proportions of grants.

Largest number of applications: Pakistan had the largest number of LGB asylum applications in each of the last 6 years.

Peaked grant rates: In 2022, 739 grants were made, the highest number since 2015.

Decreasing number of refusals: The number of LGB refusals at initial decision has been decreasing since 2017. ‘

I had a page come up on my FB of an MP called Rupert Lowe (I think because I had commented on a couple of posts elsewhere relating to reform and their racism). I was so shocked at how openly prejudice and racist his posts were and I didn't bother commenting because I was in a tiny minority of those disagreeing. It never ceases to amaze me the people on social media who out themselves as racists.

It makes me sad because the two local town FB pages I am, there an awful lot more who are absolutely horrible towards any immigrant / refugee / asylum seeker. They've now put all people who aren't white and British born as just "foreigners". Every time there is a crime in the local community you just know the comments are going to be the same.

In 2024, 61% of small boat arrivals were of five nationalities: Afghan, Syrian, Iranian, Vietnamese, and Eritrean. Afghans were the largest group. Do you think men running away from an extreme Islamist regime are pro extreme Islam? That doesn’t really track for me. Clearly they want to get away from that abhorrent regime. Wouldn’t you?

And yes, there may be an appetite among a small number of people for abhorrent or unlawful practices, but you’re using that to be fearful of anyone of that religion. Again, I just don’t think that’s necessary. I don’t think anyone thinks migration is an antidote to home-grown problems, but some of us are looking at it as a global problem rather than locating it with individuals who are, very understandably, doing whatever they can for a better life.