AAAAGH Reform. Are people ignoring the racist?

[Peasnbeans]

And that he's no economist skills yet promising the impossible. And a racist. And mysoginist.

If Mumsnet is full of women, how is no-one talking about Reform and limiting women's rights?
I know I'll get flamed for this, but it is a boiling frog situation! Jump out!
And I didn't choose the AIBU board but I looked down all the Current Threads and this didn't feature.

These people contradict themselves.
They say 'no immigration for thousands of years' but also admit 'there have always been episodes of immigration to Britain' on another page.
During Brexit they had to withdraw some of their claims due to inaccuracies.

I really appreciate the work you do and the cultural complexities you encounter.

I'm not pretending it's a breeze, but I do think it's possible for people to assimilate into a more liberal society.

And I think that asylum seekers have been so antagonised by the media that we have lost all nuance of perspective. The anti-migrant/asylum seeker narrative is a threat to those children's safety; they shouldn't have to face hostility in a country they've come to for refuge.

The substantive point is can you name another wave of migration since 1066 when, in a 30-year period, 20% of the population was suddenly "foreign" in the broadest sense? (95% white British in 1991 to 75% white British in 2021). They say that there have been a few much smaller waves which don't compare in size, not that no human has entered the British Isles since William the Conqueror. If you can name a specific migration wave of comparable size and speed, I'll take it back.

Of course that figure includes many people who integrated well with the original population and notably also mixed-race children, but we all know it also includes a lot of essentially segregated parallel societies because that's just an utterly unprecedented level of migration. Note that that is the census figure for 2021, which wouldn't capture most of the "Boriswave" of 2020-2024 which was massive, and potentially also misses many "irregular migrants" who didn't fill out the census.

But part of the issue is that many of those migrating don’t want a more liberal society - they want to live their culture here - and aspects of those cultures are abhorrent to me. Taking girls “back home” for child marriages and FGM for example. I truly despise these men and don’t want them here.

85 Sharia councils in the UK. Ok they have no legal authority but it shows a huge willingness for Sharia law in this country in some communities. One would have to be extremely naive to think that Sharia practices are not carried out in some communities - same as things like so-called “honour” killings.

Im not sure what you mean by my team not being right? It is literally a community health care team which supports asylum seekers (among other groups). If you mean that I’m not right for the team - I’m very good at my job. My views on uncontrolled migration into the UK do not influence my interactions with service users. Same as when I provide care to prisoners convicted of sex offences - I hate what they did but I provide care as required by my professional body.

@springbirdss I don't personally believe we are investing too much in asylum seekers, no.
Not while the UK is home to an extraordinary number of billionaires who are under-taxed.

If you tax the "rich" more there comes a point where they just leave the country.(UK)

At the moment the top 1% of earners pay a third of all tax revenue.

In 2024, the UK experienced a significant exodus of millionaires, with 10,800 leaving the country, representing a 157% increase from the previous year. This outflow was particularly pronounced among centi-millionaires and billionaires, many of whom relocated to countries like Switzerland, Italy, and the UAE

THIS!

Our country needs billionaires and millionaires! The rate they are leaving is actually very worrying.

Imagine being a self made billionaire/millionaire knowing you’ve worked your arse off for your fortune to be constantly heckled at that ‘you need to start paying more tax to cover the costs of the growing numbers of illegal migrants and benefit scroungers who come here to live off the system and not work a day in their life’ imagine …

There have always been a few thousand coming and going, tens of thousands some years.
But not hundreds of thousands. Never before.
Stop being so obtuse.

Whats utter madness is that you seek to blame the "liberal lefties" yet the millions allowed in on visas, then allowed to over stay with almost no deportations and via cross channel boats has almost ALL happened under the right wing Tory Government....

... who had years to sort out the lack skills our own people dont have and did nothing at all to stop cross channel dinghies, instead housing them all in Hotels up and down the land.

Yet its all the 'lefties fault!

I don't know what propaganda you've swallowed, but the Tories are very much not right wing 🙄

Agree and haven't been for a long time..too long actually.

Of course we can judge the hard-line versions of religions that do those things. But you are implying that all followers of that religion believe in those things, which is patently untrue.

Would you be open to granting asylum to women in Iran and Afghanistan who live under these male dominated and oppressive regimes?

I lived in Singapore and Malaysia, the latter is a majority Muslim country and the former has a large Muslim population. They are both vibrant, peaceful and prosperous melting pots that celebrate and accept diversity of the many other races and religions. They do not seem to have the violence and hatred that seems to stem from the constant spewing of bile from certain sections of the media. This has contributed to the rise of the right in both the US and the UK. Farrige was selected more times for Question Time than any other minority party to spout his racist, misogynistic, vile and downright wrong views to a population that is hurting from years of Tory austerity. They offer a life jacket to those who are drowning but as Trump has shown it is not a life jacket but an anvil painted to look like a life jacket.

The blame everything on the foreigners can only go so far and when they fail, like they did with Brexit continue to blame it on foreigners or Brexit being done wrongly. But people will not want to admit they are wrong and will continue to cling on to racism but not admit that they are racist because they speak civilly to their Asian doctor or black Dave who works in the Pub. This insidious cancer of voting against the best interests of themselves because they think it will hurt the “others” will also hurt themselves as well.

like the last days of the Reich, the people will blame everyone but the Fuhrer and venerate him even while their cities are being bombed and their children are dying because they do not want to admit to themselves that it was racism and their own stupidity and cowardice that got them there.

British people of all races who live in areas of deprivation, are suffering the most from the imposition of large gangs of often troubled young men, many of whom fight amongst themselves, being moved in. It is not racism to acknowledge that fact.

If people who deafen themselves by their own screams of ‘racism!’, quietened themselves to actually listen to those who are most impacted, we might start to actually deal with the unacceptable social manipulation, rather than wasting time shouting insults. Reform have listened and the recent election results reflect that.

I'm not being obtuse.
The higher levels of today are due to humanitarian crisis!!
What exactly do you expect people to do?

You know that about 3% of asylum seekers are irregular migrants who are use small boat crossings. These are the ones who have some association to the UK, either family, worked for the British forces or have learnt English. The majority are from areas that have been destabilised by US foreign policy (supported by the UK), climate change or oppressive regimes that have been propped up by the Western powers. The papers can always cite exceptions and in the case of the Daily Mail just repeat the same stories but substitute asylum seekers for Jews. The vast numbers of immigrants come as business leaders, workers, to staff the NHS and care homes, to study and contribute to businesses or start their own.

If you look at any metric, such as the number of patents that has risen exponentially due to immigration, the rise in incomes and GDP and the exchange of ideas that have allowed innovation to flourish in medicine, science and the arts. Yes some people have been left behind but this has everything to do with austerity and the Tories’ desire to shrink the state rather than immigration which has been overwhelming positive (with some issues as well I admit). Yet racism, hatred and the visibility of the other people has made them the useful scapegoat to appeal to people’s lowest common denominator feelings and there are plenty in the media who will earn a wage pandering to this hatred.

Ahh, yes, those poor billionaires! @bellsanddogwhistles

Wealth inequality in the UK is literally soaring but that's not a concern of yours? We should instead be pandering to the 1%?

Those with income from stocks/shares/other assets are paying less tax than ordinary working people... If tax rates were equalised it could raise £16.7 billion a year.

But no, we should keep demonising asylum seekers living in poverty.

👏👏👏

I think it's fair to say that everyone wants illegal immigration stopped, I mean, who would actually want that?

How is Farage going to do it?

Conservative interpretations of any religion put women (and other groups) at a disadvantage, and a great deal of the extreme oppression is cultural rather than religious. It doesn’t seem fair to single out Islam, all religions are proscriptive and harmful.

There are no parts of the UK where Sharia law is commonplace. Sharia councils have zero standing in law. There are probably more police in misogynist WhatsApp groups than people in Sharia councils.

This is a thread about Reform voters - for whom the Tories ARE the liberal lefties ;)

I suggest you re read their manifesto's, public actions and statements? Sunak was always to the 'right of the party.

Compare their manifesto in 2024 with that of RN in France.

The party threw out ardent Thatcherites because they were "too leftie and pro EU"

Thatchers own Chancellor, John Major, isn't even a member now! neither are other Thatcher former ministers.

When were the Conservatives more right wing??

Ffs that’s not what they were saying and you know it

Sick of all the side stepping

Do you think we need their tax revenue or not?

Fortunately many will return once Labour are gone. And perhaps even more fortunately, we'll only have to endure this for a single term and then the Labour Party will be back in the wilderness for many years to come.

So you approve of vigilanteism, so long as they don’t outnumber the police?