To think we say we want both parents to make changes to work patterns after baby but in reality workplaces don't want dad's to actually

[LostShepherdsPie]

It’s 2025 and I would like to think that we expect dad's to be fully hands on, especially on those early years and so if we do see a dad needing flexibility to do drop off etc it would be supported. When I returned from mat leave, I went part-time through a flexible working request so I thought it's only fair my partner is uses flexi-time to do nursery drop-offs and hybrid working to help with the one day when I'm at work and we don't have a nursery space for that day but it’s been met with frosty reactions.

Today, while WFH and juggling care after family support fell through, our 16-month-old briefly appeared on camera. Even after giving a heads-up and apologising, he felt judged.

Funny how women doing the same get asked, “Isn’t your husband around?” as if to say can't they help out? Yet, here my husband is doing just that but he's telling me he's getting strong hints it's frowned upon.
For context he is working in the charity sector / public sector and I thought they were all, 'were fully supportive of flexible work patterns / blah blah ...not quite huh.

Btw He’s doing a great job at work, with glowing feedback so it's not a case that any of this is actually impacting his work.

I think the issue is the working from home and looking after a baby at the same time. Its impossible to work effectively and look after a child, let alone baby at the same time. No business is going to say yes you can work from home and look after your baby at the same time.

My work would expect you to take the day off if other childcare fell through - no matter if it was the mum or dad. I can WFH to accommodate no commuting for things like short holiday camp days etc. but not work and have a child at home at the same time.
DH work are more flexible in letting him start earlier/finish later to accommodate a few hours off in the morning / afternoon with one of our children.

Yes, that's how I read it. It's totally unfeasible to work and take care of a one year old at the same time. Many of us did it during lockdown out of necessity and the burnout was real!

Sorry to say this but I would be raging to be paying someone to work and they are watching their child. You need to find proper childcare

I’m not reading it again. They had cobbled together childcare because that was the day they have no nursery session for. The cobbled together childcare fell through (as cobbled together things do sometimes). Nobody had enough sense to take the day off. Why do I need to read it again? You read it.

Yeah sorry op. Attempting to work from home and look after a 16 month old is massively unreasonable. I’m assuming his line manager wasn’t aware of the situation?

My children were off school sick yesterday, I told my boss and she was happy for me to continue WFH because they are 10 and 7 and can be self sufficient for short periods. But a colleague had to take the day off as emergency leave (paid) a few months ago when her 3 year old was ill.

I wfh throughout Covid when my children were 5 and 2 and it was next to impossible, but work (different job) were understanding because there were literally no childcare options available.

Totally, and also quite sad. And then we see the rise of screens and then children turning up to school totally unprepared and unable to sit still and actively listen.

In the circumstances you describe as a female I’d have told my manager that I was WFH but had a child at home due to childcare challenges. I’d expect men to do the same, as it’s not easy to focus on work with a toddler. If they’d wanted me to I would have taken a days leave but they were always fine as I’d make up the time elsewhere.

OP unfortunately what could have been an interesting thread about societal expectations of women compared to men, gender bias in the workplace etc (all of which I think very much happens, to the detriment of women) has been overtaken by ‘you’re gaming it while wfh’.

Employers who don't want their employees to take the piss are equally scathing of both men and women who claim to be WFH while actually doing child care. You can do childcare and WFH if the work is paid per-achievement e.g. contract work, rather than having a set salary. If you are salaried then each day/half day/other unit of time needs to be either officially work time (in which case you are not providing any childcare to any child young enough to need proper supervision - you might well have a 10yo in the house if they need no parental input) or officially non-work time (where you can be focusing on childcare, and might perhaps check your work email occasionally but you aren't being paid to do so). If an employer is treating men and women differently in this regard then it is definitely sexist discrimination and they should be taken to an employment tribunal. In OPs case, she would need to find evidence that a female employee at the same organisation in the same circumstance as her partner would have had a more understanding and forgiving attitude if she was juggling toddler care with online meetings.

Your title is correct, but the example you use is not. I have WFH for 5 years and got my DCs nanny back with us as soon as it was allowed. They were 9 and nearly 7 and 2 of us WFH. With a younger child it is impossible to work and care for the child

Agreed.

I thought it's only fair my partner is uses flexi-time to do nursery drop-offs and hybrid working to help with the one day when I'm at work and we don't have a nursery space for that day but it’s been met with frosty reactions.

If the partner’s “flexi time and hybrid working” was used to work longer hours over previous 4 days, so he was able to fully care for his child on this day, that would be great. That’s what this means as an option. But he can’t use “flexi time and hybrid working” to BE the childcare while working a full day.

Your friend is either planning on working extra on the days she has childcare and doing less on the day she has her child at home, or slacking off. You cannot work a full productive day whilst looking after a young child. I think your OH was frowned upon because clearly, he’s not putting in a proper day’s work whilst simultaneously caring for a toddler.
I WFH part-time flexibly. I can choose my hours as long as the work is done. I do school/nursery runs and the toddler comes home at lunchtime then naps before the afternoon school run. So I do my work whilst he’s at nursery, then again when he naps, and if that gets cut short, I work in the evening after bedtime. I do not work when he’s home/awake. I couldn’t do either job justice.

It is true that women are expected to pick up childcare and make their job work round it in a way that men are not. I remember one occasion when I was still married my son was ill. I was speaking at a conference that day and really had to go so my now ex DH took the day off. His employer said they’d allow it this once but in future he had to get me to look after the kids as being off work just wasn’t acceptable. They’d not even considered that I might not be able to (and that I earned more than ex DH so it made more sense for him to be off), just assumed that as a woman it was for me to do it.

In my company it would be frowned upon if either a male or female was seen to be looking after children when they were supposed to be working. Especially a 16 month old that can’t be given activities to do while you’re on a call.
You are working at home, you’re not on a day off and taking a couple of calls.
There are ways to juggle it, my ex boss took a 2 hour break between 3-5 a couple of days a week to get the kids from school and look after them until the dad got home. She’d then work an extra 2 hours in the evening. That wouldn’t be possible if she was in the office.

How do you know the employer would not have had the same attitude if a female employee needed to take a day off for a sick child? Some employers are more flexible than others and it often depends on how senior you are at work and how much autonomy you have.

You’re conflating two things here. It’s not reasonable for either parent to repeatedly work from home whilst looking after a child, esp. a young toddler. Most workplaces will allow the odd day here or there to cover unexpected illness, but few would be alright with someone trying to both work and look after a young child at the same time. Flexible working would be if your DH condensed his hours so that he only worked 4 days and then looked after your child for the day when you don’t have nursery. YABU if you expect him to do both at the same time. You’ve likely been met with a frosty reception because it’s unprofessional and not fair on your child.

I think it’s generally frowned upon for people to be trying to care for children while working, whether it’s the mother or the father. In some jobs it would be totally impossible. I do it sometimes, but my daughter is 10.5 and can entertain herself in her room or the garden or go out to play while I work, not a baby or toddler fully dependent on me.
On paper your OHs employer might be fully supportive but that doesn’t mean the people themselves don’t have attitudes that are a bit old fashioned and unhelpful. As long as your OH is working within contractual obligations and has enough flexi to do drop off etc on the days you can’t, he should just crack on and ignore any sniffy comments.

This is a huge problem. There is unspoken mysoginy still that dad's work and that's women's work.
Societal expectations, cultural and this is how employers view it still very traditionally however they say they are modern and flexible etc.
They grudgingly give mums Flexi time but when a dads ask, there is judgement, attitude, push back, resentment and creating a culture to stop those who want it asking, and if they do....🙈

And because so few ask, they feel it's the norm not to.

It's an incredibly hard pill to swallow in 2025, and sad that this is even a double standard, but sadly it is.

You sound very naive. Firstly, it's not acceptable for anyone to work at home while looking after children whether male or female. Secondly, do you seriously think employers are happier for women to take time off work to look after their children compared with men and it will have less of an impact on women's careers? Is that what your partner is trying to convince you of?😂

Who says this to you? Are they people who have actually worked from home with a child running around? It's impossible to concentrate on work when you're caring for a child. I can't even work uninterrupted with a 10yo at home for 2hrs after school. He needs connection and help with things still.

Working from home can make the logistics of childcare or school e.g. drop-offs, pick-ups etc easier to manage. It's not something that can be done as a substitute for external childcare.

So you think that if men take time off to look after their children it has a negative impact on their careers but if women do it it is fine and they get pay raises and promotions regardless.🙄

Yes they do and it’s a fair point. But OP has started this thread on the basis that working from home and childcare go hand in hand, for women and it doesn’t. It’s actually harmful to women to perpetuate this POV.

For me, as a working women, WFH is what allows me to remain economically productive, keep my pension etc and care for a family in a way that fits with my own beliefs (ie time with a care giver and not maxing out childcare). It lets me fit in work outs which enormously boosts my MH and physical wellbeing. What it does not do is allow me to WFH and care for a small child. If employers think this is the status quo, and some do, the drive to get people into the office and thus women out the workforce will continue.

I absolutely do not think that. It's outrageous we are the default parent, even when the other parent wants to be hands on and it's not acceptable that we suffer the motherhood penalty in terms of progression, raises etc etc.
I am specifically talking about modern dads wanting to be hands on and the obstacles they are facing which do not negate ours.
Both things are possible and it's not a competition.

@TinyFlamingo i agree. We cannot campaign or hope for an improvement in women’s rights without also affording the same privileges and expectations to men in terms of child rearing and their responsibilities as a parent.

It is up to the couple themselves to sort this no one else