To think she’s just lucky her kids aren’t fussy and not to do with parenting

[Giillie]

One of my close friends has 4 kids 8,6,5 and 3. Her husband is Middle Eastern she is French. Every time we meet up I notice her kids are so unfussy with food, she tells me what they have had for tea and it’s stuff my kids would never touch, no issues with fruit, no issues with veg some of her kids have one specific thing they don’t like (like one of her kids hates bananas but will eat any other fruit).
Friend has got into a habit of saying it’s the way “British” parents raise their kids.

AIBU to think it’s nothing to do with British vs French/Middle eastern parenting and just luck that all her kids are great eaters?

It’s both, I agree, but the ratios will differ in different families. I accept that some children have sensory issues that would have prevailed whatever family they were born into but I also think people are unaware of how much their own preferences and issues around food are transmitted, not just by them but by those around them who know about them.

We were out with adult friends, including a brother and sister who are both fussy but the sister is very restricted to beige foods and pizza. There are an incredible number of things she doesn’t eat. She had her 3 year old daughter with her and I know she is keen for her to eat more widely and she makes an effort not to transmit her own aversions. However it was really interesting because we were all sharing starters and her daughter picked up a calamari ring and was about to eat it, I noticed and said nothing but my husband, and the child’s uncle simultaneously said something along the lines of “Does she know what that is?” - I whispered to my husband “It doesn’t matter”. - he came back with “Well she might not like it!” to which I replied, correctly as it turns out, that she was unlikely to find out now. Sure enough the three year old was now fully alert to the fact that this innocuous looking battered ring (delicious at this restaurant) was in fact a suspect and dangerous food and rejected it. I was shocked at my husband as he wouldn’t have done this with his own daughter or mine, none of our children are picky and were exposed to lots of foods from weaning. In this instance the child’s mum wasn’t the one influencing the child, - she might have done so but she didn’t get chance. It was a clear example of how people react dramatically around food and I bet neither my husband nor the brother, who has worked hard to be less restricted himself, would have thought they’d discourage a child from trying new things but that’s what their actions did.

I know Calamari a la Romana is not a healthy dish but that’s not the point, it’s how people reacted when a child was about to try a new food.

This! This is the rule in our house (no SN issues so there is no medical reason why they can’t eat anything put in front of them). Once dinner is over, the kitchen is closed until breakfast, no exceptions.

I do think that it’s a bit of both.. But one very small example of parental influence.. My mum hated olives and always said how nasty they were.. I never even tried one until I was an adult who had moved out of home and really liked them! So I think we as parents / adults need to be aware of how we speak about food around children and young people.

Re the OP's friend, it most likely is luck as well as parenting. For those who read French, this government website links to a study suggesting that 77% of children aged between 2 and 10 are suspicious of trying new foods and likely to become fussy: https://www.sante.fr/mon-enfant-ne-mange-pas-de-legumes-la-selectivite-alimentaire. So perhaps OP's friend's children are in the 23% who aren't. But she's also probably more or less doing the things the article recommends (which I like and try to do): not just buying the child's preferred foods, not forcing them to eat things, serving the same foods in different ways, modelling enjoyment of a range of foods yourself.

And I think the other aspect of parenting is attitude. I could say (as I did upthread) that my 3yo is a fussy little bastard. I could also say, if I wanted to frame it more positively, that he eats a wide range of different meals, all types of beans, eats really well at every meal, and that would also be true. I think @LightDrizzle's example is really interesting and echoes what we've been thinking recently, which is that we need to avoid talking about DS's eating preferences in front of him, and try to present everything as food he will likely want to eat one day.

The South African one is a burger, which is also on the adult menu. And Turkish is a donor plate, I assume because it's the least spicy of the available options (their adult food is delicious but too spicy for my three year old). And while they may be catering for local tastes I don't live in the UK so they're 100% not catering to British tastes. Meaning children's dishes are not an exclusively British thing.

My kids are half Burmese. They have never been bought up to not like food. Obviously they have the occasional thing they don’t like . ie one doesn’t like bamboo the others don’t like Brussels.. but from weaning they have all tried everything. They don’t have allergies and have never eaten crap. Their dad is a chef and culturally food is the centre of life, family and important celebrations. Fussing over food would just not be tolerated. So surprisingly no one in our community has ‘fussy eaters’ so yes I believe it’s got a lot to do with parents who pander to kids ..

Well she's lucky not to have a child with serious food related issues like arfid but otherwise it has a lot to do with parenting. My oldest is fussy, even as a teenager she insists on a separate plate for rice and pasta as she hates them touching other foods but at school she doesn't have that option so does eat the food even when it's touching. So that's down to my parenting, as I let it go (and I'll carry on letting it go so long as she is still eating as its not worth the argument to me) but I was stricter with my youngest from the beginning, and introduced him to a wider range of foods as a baby and he is much less fussy. He is still reluctant to try new foods but I don't give him the option not to try and 99% of the time he likes the new food.

Oh sorry I wasn’t suggesting the stands were in Britain - just that migrants bringing new cuisines into a country adapt it to the local tastes. Its rarely quite the same as they would have in the home country.

So were the burger/kebab simply smaller portions of the adult menu? That I have seen a lot in countries where default for children to eat the same as the adults and I wish it was commoner in the UK.

The UK isn’t unique in having children’s menus which consist almost entirely of something-with-chips but its very far from the norm. Even a willingness to supply two plates with an adult meal would have been useful but unless the restaurant was Italian, Indian or similar you would have thought I was asking them to serve gravel.

Fussy eaters do exist in France as when dd did a French exchange one of the French boys wouldn't eat any vegetables, including onions, or tomatoes. It was challenging for the host parents

I’m Irish and was made eat whatever was on my plate whether I liked it or not. Now I’d eat anything.

I don't agree with your friend.

For years we tried to get our eldest to eat our food. We thought he'd eat something if he got hungry enough. He didn't. He was very slight and slim. So after years of trying we just decided that he needs to get eating and we gave into him.

My youngest started off being an amazing eater and he only had real food. I literally never did pouches / baby food.

Overnight he became an extremely fussy eater and it stuck - now we give in to him too because I just want my kids to eat calories and grow.

I prepare multiple different food every night to cater which is the opposite of what I wanted to do and often think a few decades ago, how did families manage it or have we as a nation bred fussy eaters over the generations?

I think parenting definitely plays a big part - British parents are often very soft when it comes to food.

When I was growing up (Irish), I ate what I was given or I didn't eat. That was that.

I was a fussy eater, and the rule was once I sat down at dinner I didn't leave the table until my plate was finished, or it was bedtime. I vividly remember one evening sitting at the dinner table alone for hours because I didn't want to eat my peas. My mother didn't budge from that rule.

I was allowed snacks, but only certain ones. If I refused the snacks on offer, I didn't get one - there were no other snacks in the house. By the time I was no longer a toddler, there wasn't much I wouldn't eat.

I remember going round a friends for dinner one night and being in shock when I was offered a choice of three different dinners. The mother regularly cooking 3 different meals, one for my friend (who only ate chicken nuggets, chips, and beans), one for her brother, and then one for herself and her husband.

as others said, outside SEN etc it really is down to what they’re exposed to and what is on the table when they eat. My friend’s kids who are growing up in French, Portuguese, Israeli, Mexican households are used to French, Portuguese, Israeli or Mexican food. If served things from each other’s households, they’d likely have some questions or flavours they’d find challenging. My kids had never had baked beans or fish fingers growing up as I didn’t grow up here so didn’t even think about them so they won’t eat them now.

I also agree that children benefit from mealtimes at a table and having mealtime be relaxed and fun.

‘Gave in’ to him eating what tho
A limited but nonetheless healthy pale bland diet on repeat of soft food like baked or mashed potato, rice, poached chicken or fish , toasted good bread, unflavoured yogurt, plain omelette, leek n pot/chicken soup

or freezer UPF nuggets and pizza ?

I think the part that frustrates me is how they have become the default food stuffs in this country when a child is Fussy or SEN
or whatever ?

Culture and how food is approached at home is a huge part. It's no surprise fussiness is common if what we offer our kids is boring, repetitive and not hugely flavourful. And that is especially true of kids menus in restaurants. (caveat of course loads of people cook interesting tasty food, but lets face it, we aren't renowned for our food culture here).

I have a friend who is a single mum to 4, she’s British but lived abroad before having her kids. I will say her kids are the most amazing eaters, I always wondered how she did it, and what I’ve noticed is

1. No big deal centre of attention when weaning, just sat at the table in high chair and offered an adaption of what she was having, but attention not on the child
2. These kids have no concept of some foods exciting, they have never had fun cereal so it’s no fight at breakfast, it’s always been toast, weetabix or porridge on school days. They’ve never had chicken nuggets or cheap supermarket pizza, they rarely have McDonald’s (talking like once a year).
3. She doesn’t do snacks with her kids, not in the way I have, she offers her kids a piece of fruit mid morning and a piece of fruit mid afternoon but nothing elaborate
4. She never makes a second meal, you eat what you’re given or you go to bed hungry

My kids are quite picky but that’s a parenting flaw in me, they don’t want toast as they know chocolate cereal exists, they don’t want fresh meals as they know chicken nuggets and chips are an option. I wish I’d just never let my kids know these were options!

This is why I think we’ve over diagnosed the ‘sensory issues’ (and things like ARFID) in this country.

Funny how it doesn’t seem to be much of a problem in other cultures.

These are basic rules for me. I have a SEN child too and the same goes.

I think children with SEN do like junk food more than other kids, because they get a dopamine hit from the fat/salt/sugar.

That doesn’t mean you have to let them have it though.

Nonsense
Try having a child with ARFID and you will see.
My DD would literally go hungry for days rather than eat a food she couldn't tolerate.
Her "safe" foods were mostly raw vegetables with some limited carbs so no beige rubbish as there wasn't even any in the house. DD was eating BBQ octopus in Greece aged 2 but wouldn't go near a chicken nugget so lack of variety was never an issue for her
While I do agree that parents often contribute to the problem and we do seem to do worse than a lot of countries genuine ARFID is a nightmare to deal with

I didn't eat any chocolate cereal or nuggets or baked beans or chips or McDonalds when I was a child, and neither did my kids. I am not trying to be holier-than- thou. They are not common foods in my culture. My mum wouldnt have known what they are. She never went into the supermarkets, only to the Asian grocers. We had chocolate and crisps once in a while, not daily.

I did know about Iceland of course but I just continued as my mum did, feeding the traditional foods of our culture, which is more or less fresh veg, lentils, fruit, grains. Kids ate okra and spinach and squash from birth, just as I did, because there wasn't anything else available 9n table. They are not SEN.

Oh, and I have never made a second meal unless they were ill. If they didnt want to eat anything they had daal and rice, which is the equivalent of toast for us.

No, more like a limited pale bland diet including fresh meat & veg. So, 4 meals that will be eaten on rotation.

And yes, freezer nuggets or whatever twice a week.

Would like us to be UPF free but the experience of a non eating child has changed DH and I.

But Why on ‘nugget nights’ not more fresh veg and meat from one of the four meals he would eat ?
This is where I think the cultural element comes in. That crap simply would not offered BECAUSE the diet is so limited and child so fussy.
From my experience in Europe what a fussy child eats would be focused on with every mouthful needing to being as nutritionally dense and healthy as possible.
Other less fussy kids would be allowed, say pizza ( with lots salad) -but generally as a light meal not the main meal of the day once in a while.
However, the fussy child- BECAUSE he is so fussy would limited to ONLY eating the healthy nourishing food they will eat on a daily basis.

ONLY when fusspot will eat better will they get more choice. If you follow what I mean.

The focus is always about the quality of the food and what actual nourishment the child is getting into their body.

Also
A Maccies or Burger King in Spain would not ever replace a main meal.
it’s a snacky post cinema treat for example , but the potage/soup followed by the meat/fish with veg/salad and good bread will have been eaten midday by all.

Some kids have strange whims. I remember being a pretty fussy child - going through a phase of not liking egg white because of the texture, being funny about meat on the bone (always hated gristle, fat on meat, etc), I don't like the idea of shellfish or fish with bones and bits attached. Would eat most vegetables except peppers. I've grown up to now eat more things but still don't want to eat shellfish, it's weird sea insects to me!

Mind you - my friend's 8yo doesn't like jam. What kid doesn't like jam? He likes strawberry sauce on an ice cream, but refuses birthday cake if there's a layer of strawberry jam in it! I'm sure it's just a fixed idea he has in his head and if he actually tried it he'd like it.