To think she’s just lucky her kids aren’t fussy and not to do with parenting

[Giillie]

One of my close friends has 4 kids 8,6,5 and 3. Her husband is Middle Eastern she is French. Every time we meet up I notice her kids are so unfussy with food, she tells me what they have had for tea and it’s stuff my kids would never touch, no issues with fruit, no issues with veg some of her kids have one specific thing they don’t like (like one of her kids hates bananas but will eat any other fruit).
Friend has got into a habit of saying it’s the way “British” parents raise their kids.

AIBU to think it’s nothing to do with British vs French/Middle eastern parenting and just luck that all her kids are great eaters?

I have a Spanish friend who is brutal with her kids. But it works.

They eat what she puts down for dinner. If they refuse, they go hungry. No pudding or snacks- that’s it.

she reckons she can get any kid to eat anything within a week.

i think there is a huge amount of genetics involved in fussy eaters. But, there is also the possibility that we have a lot more choice. I hated meat and most traditional British food as a child. My mum was not a great cook either. But I ate all my dinner: because there was nothing else if I didn’t.

my son is a wonderful eater: has been since we started weaning. Aside from the fact that we eat a wide variety of fruit and veg, we never really put much pressure or drama around food: it was basically put on the plate for him to eat or not. But aside from a yoghurt or fruit after dinner, there wasn’t the offer of anything else.

Totally agree.
Some kids with significant SN would rather starve than conform and that obviously needs a different approach. But all the rest with nothing wrong with them other than being bloody awkward can just suck it up.

I agree!
And to that I can only say, when DD was 6 or 7 she had an extremely fussy stage and simply wouldn't touch her food or eat very little. We ignored her... (DH was rushing off to night shift, so it was me and the DC)
Anyway, I also had a toddler DS so the evening after Dinner was taken up with having some family time with both DC and then toddler had bath & bed time.

I would not sort the table & kitchen until both DC were in bed... to cut a long story short, many a time DD would eat her cold dinner while I put DS to bed.... she eventually would eat with us again.

My conclusion: DC won't starve themselves and will eat what is available! And you can't blame them for holding out for the good stuff!

My son is autistic but I was so lucky as he would and still does try anything once. Feeding him as a child was sheer joy, I do think at 22 he’s going through a delayed teenage phase (if it’s not beige and deep fried etc). However even now he will give new things a go.

I think if you have a kid who eats….rejoice but don’t kid yourself it’s superior parenting. It really isn’t.

Most French kids are brought up on sugary breakfasts, chocolate in bread (it’s specially made into that shape), lots of upf long life bakery goods (just look at the aisles dedicated to it in the supermarkets). Most bistros have little variation in children’s meals (all with chips similar to the UK, but I have noticed a lot of places in the UK offer a choice in sides). The French do not like spice in general! I grew up in France (with an extremely snobby French mother who had no qualms about sugary breakfasts) and spent holidays in the UK. Even now I don’t notice too much difference in the food except the UK (at least where I live) has a huge selection of world cuisine and it’s very good.

At nursery my child is given curries, Middle Eastern food, Caribbean food, tradition British food, a huge range of things! They eat it all up, I’m very impressed.

I have 3 DC, all with varying levels of autism. My oldest ate anything until he was 15 months old. I remember him sitting at a toddler group meal out eating potato salad and beetroot and people who exclusively used pouches and jars of baby food being amazed. Then he just stopped eating, pretty much overnight and developed what would now be diagnosed as ARFID. It's taken years to get him to a stage where he can eat out and find something acceptable on the menu. My middle one is a hollow legged 14 year old and eats anything he sees. The youngest is like the oldest and we're awaiting CAMHS. He pretty much lives on fishfingers, popcorn and chocomel at the moment. There is always fruit etc in. I eat a variety of foods. So I'd say it's the child.

@shalamakooky

So we looked at what he would eat
say fish fingers
so how about if you got salmon fillets or or fish - whizz up bread crumbs and olive oil and add a tiny amount of dried (or fresh or build up to fresh) parsley
coat the fish in breadcrumb mixture, bake until cooked and crumbs crispy

that sort of thing so they were effectively fish fingers but homemade

we didn’t just plonk a fruit bowl in front of him and demand “go!”

I cut oranges into “wheels”
cut an orange in slices, not too thick, across the segments, cut them in half and then pull the sides apart so all the little pieces of segments separate and you eat each segment off the rind.
I would cut it in middle of table and encourage him to share it with me, brother and dad. Or just me.
He only had to try/eat one half a slice at first nothing overwhelming

He he liked sunflower seeds so we tried him in pumpkin seeds “because they were green” to introduce green is good vibes

so if you son likes sausages could you try a small one sausage toad in the hole?

I always tried to put similar looking food on the rabid so if we were having pasta he would have the same pasta, our sauce would be full of onion and garlic, his would be at first tomato purée, but then we added a tiny bit of olive oil, then a tiny bit of basil, each meal, a tiny suggestion of taste

If we went too far, too much garlic say, we would wind it back and go again

it takes months

simply look at what he will eat and enjoys and work out from there

There's definitely a cultural/parenting issue.

I've never bought a jar of baby food nor cooked 'baby food'. I always cooked a meal that included something I can mush for weaning. My daughter was also aware I don't cook individual meals, so she will find something to eat from what is provided.
As her dad said - its unusual for a child to starve themselves to death with food available, so just 'wait it out'.

@shalamakooky
chives are a good starting point replacement for onion
cheese covers a multitude of hidden gems
oatcakes instead of bread
if he will eat eggs try an omelette with a tiny amount building up of spinach

anything like that

if he says he hates fresh tomato say (don’t believe him!) but agree you won’t give him that without asking

ask him “we need to get the odd bit of fruit and veg in you baby to help your brain grow so how are we going to do that?” That seemed to work by seemingly giving him a choice (closed choice)

So you’re an advocate for sleep training then? Not judging, genuinely asking! Because I would say that sleeping is also a lot to do with the temperament of the child, and luck 😂 Unless you mean older kids getting up in the night?! Is that a thing? I’ve got a 3 year old that sleeps through and a 9 month old that doesn’t, so was hoping there’d be some light at the end of the tunnel with the baby sometime soon!

I was raised by a Spaniard, and my childhood experience was exactly like you describe. When I had children of my own. I took the same route. It works.

Some neurodiverse children may genuinely struggle though, and may need a different approach.

I lives in Spain for 8 years party of that time with IL’s where diet was entirely Spanish dishes, and set in stone mealtimes with little deviation.

My four kids were already total
gannets who would eat anything but it was interesting observing my nephew who was SEN and fussy with food as well as others and. and see how what he ate compared with say a British counterpart.

Beige frozen oven food/‘kids food’ was not a thing in Spain while I was there , so kids who prefer a soft, bland / ‘fussy’ diet generally eat the following on repeat:

Papilla cereal (imagine weetabix in hot milk)

Cola Coa - hot cocoa in milk with plain digestive biscuits

Fresh Bread and olive oil

Cubes of ‘Queso Fresco’Bland firm cottage cheese or other mild cheese

plain poached chicken breast/ white fish sliced/ flaked, drizzled with olive oil

Plain 2 eggs omelettes - loads of these

But the heavy lifting and eaten almost daily would be the ‘Caldo’ which is Chicken broth soup made with the bones and veg and maybe a ham bone for flavour. To this two hour cooked broth tiny pasta or broken spaghetti will be added and egg whisked in as well as shredded chicken and maybe some tiny carrot cubes.

A child will be stood over while they eat it and there will be no negotiation at all
on that as a main meal. Many Spaniards eat this soup as a first course multiple
times a month themselves.

A fussy/ bland/ ‘beige’ if you will diet will be tolerated in Spain but the only things being offered will be the sort of things I’ve stated above.

The idea that anything processed or breaded frozen with low nutritional
content would pass the lips of a fussy /SEN Spanish child - certainly the ones I met - would be utterly rejected. My SIL and MIL for example, had the attitude that especially with children on a limited diet , every calorie had to give nutritional value.

No rubbish would ever be offered so no rubbish would ever be requested by the child

I worked with children in France years ago and my partner is French.
They eat almost everything because they're expected to. And not pandered to.
I watched a toddler at work gag when they were given comte cheese with bread. I told the other staff, "hey he's gagging let's take it away!!" They were not bothered and just said "he will learn to like it" 🤣 And he did....🤷‍♀️

Same in France. Typical day of food for the toddlers was lunch at 11am:

A starter of grated carrots or some other salad with lemon juice for flavour.

Then some rice/chicken/beef/ puree or fish pie

Then plain unflavoured yogurt with fruit

Then one small piece of bread with cheese

Then one plain biscuit.

Then they had snack at 3pm which was usually plain yogurt again (with some apple compote for a week or two until they learned to eat the yogurt by itself) plus some fruit. On a Friday they had a small piece on plain sponge cake. That was the entire day of food.
This was in a creche.

Yes. I think there probably are some.
Although they obviously don’t eat chicken nuggets, they eat other plain food that is available.
Just like before there were chicken nuggets in Britain there were fussy eaters who only ate things like potatoes and bread and butter. My Grandpa was one despite being one of 12 where food was scarce. He’d often get in from school and go straight to bed as it was preferable to getting a hiding then going to bed for not eating his tea. His Dad joked when he signed up to fight in WW2 he’d be more likely to starve before he got shot.

Also if the child didn't eat what was In front of them, they're were not offered toast or biscuits. It was off to bed hungry. They eat eventually. They do not just give up and die.

I don't know about judge you, but my sister and I both get funny comments off our MILs about the amount of fruit and veg our kids eat.

My son was a pain in the arse to wean because he wasn't that interested in food, but he would eat bits off my plate, and I wasn't changing what was on my plate for a baby who wouldn't eat anything I served him.

From being the worst eater of his baby friends, he's now the best eater - and he's the only one who's never had a pouch.

Another vote for luck and parenting!

Right from weaning my son has only ever been served what DH and I are eating. We sit at the table and eat and talk. DS doesn't have to eat anything at all but he does have to partake in mealtimes by being at the table.

He ate virtually nothing until he was a year old (breastfed so no concerns re growth) and now eats normal portions of our meals. This month he's had tonkotsu broth, cassoulet, lamb roast, carbonara, Goan curry, foraged wild garlic pesto, as well as chocolate, pasta, pizza, and McDonald's.

The key, though, it's to not make food a big deal. It truly doesn't matter if they try the thing today or next week but the more pressure you put on them the more anxiety they will feel and eating will become less and less pleasurable. Also, model a happy and healthy mealtime. My son has seen me try be things and enjoy them. He's seen me try something and not like it. Hopefully, this is all creating an environment where food is fun and sociable and, crucially, its safe.

One of mine would have been an incredibly fussy eater given the chance.

She wasn't given the chance. Here is dinner, which is what everyone else in the family is having. You don't like it?
Well, that's what is on offer.
And there is apple crumble for dessert, and if you want that (and I know you do), you need to make decent inroads into your sausage and mash AND the cabbage first.

We had a few big stand-offs, but they were worth it to have a child who happily ate what she was given. They didn't have to eat everything, they could have a couple of things they didn't like, but the drill was, This is dinner, and that's it.

It's how I was brought up, and it had no ill-effects (I have a very happy relationship with food), and my DC also all have a decent eating habits as adults.

Good god.

Or you could just mash up what you’re having from the get go?

Exactly how it works in our house too!

Not wanting to derail the thread, but no, there’s no need for sleep training if you start off with good habits. The same as the food.

Oh, and the child isn’t in charge of the household.

This is pretty much what we’ve implemented with the toddler but I will admit it seems to go against a lot of what the instagram baby led weaning / nutrition pages tell you to do. I resisted for so long because they say, oh you’ll give your kid an eating disorder, they’ll have an awful relationship with food etc. But I really think his behaviour is nothing to do with food really and more to do with testing boundaries / being a toddler!

Why?
Feeding him wasn’t/isn’t a chore.
He had severe eczema and had come up with hives with dairy/eggs and is peanut/nut free, especial peanuts because according to his recent blood allergy test he is very allergic to the peanut protein that is most likely to result in anaphylaxis.

Not that this matters much but food wasn’t straightforward for him, or us.

And another mum, for whatever the reasons, asked what we did and this is what we did.

And it worked.

Nothing we have to do for our kids is a problem, a pain at times, but never a problem.

If anything we did that worked could help someone else, then great, isn’t that partly, mostly, what a largely female forum called mumsnet should be about?