Finding it hard not to resent friend on benefits

[ArlJudey]

I’m friends with a woman, she has 4 kids all fairly young still. She’s single (dad not in the country so no maintenance), she lives in a 3 bed council house that is nicer than my home (okay she got lucky as I know some of the council houses around here are awful but she’s in a lovely spacious house). She works 15 hours a week, above minimum wage but I don’t know by how much, she gets UC and child benefit and Scottish child payment on top of this, I know she doesn’t have any family help etc.

Anyway met with this friend today and she complained that she can’t afford to go anywhere nice on holiday, she’s going to Egypt in the summer for the week; last year she went to Greece so she’s hardly slumming it. She brags about having no debt at all, her kids have nice clothes (though I know she is a Vinted wizard), doesn’t seem to struggle at Christmas, uses gousto every week etc.

AIBU to resent that she seems to have a much nicer life than I do with 2 kids working full time (also single). I know there are some obvious differences like I have a small amount of debt I’m paying off and have a car to pay for/fuel/insure.
I really don’t get how on benefits she’s doing it!

Your friends are lucky to have you. (Continuing with the off topic deviation!)

You may be able to claim, but it doesn’t guarantee a Council house 😳

New mums end up in B&Bs and hostels for years now.
Gone are the days that turning up pregnant to your local council office meant you got a flat by the time the baby was born.
Times have changed so much.

Op, you should do a benefits calculator, I think you'd be surprised at how little people get. I'm sure your friend also thinks you buy things she can't afford like getting your hair and nails done. You just have different priorities.

Only 40% are working and most will be choosing to work part time to maximise their benefits. Whole 60% have made it their full time mission to just live off benefits. Not a great picture, is it.

It’s benefits which keep wages low, rather than low wages requiring benefits. If wages were not subsidized with benefits, employers would have to pay the going rate. And wages would be what they should be.

The benefits system is not only abused by millions, it’s also the worst type of incentivization for employers to pay the right amount.

It should be cut deep and hard.

Yeah so little that millions are choosing to live off these benefits. These argument about benefits being very little to live just is t supported by facts.

This.

@Keirawr "The benefits system is not only abused by millions ...". Evidence?

Millions aren't choosing to live off benefits, they have no choice as the cost of living, housing especially, is so high that their wages do not cover it.

A single person over the age of 25 on UC gets £400.14 per month. Once you've taken off all your bills that doesn't leave a lot for food and holidays! The housing element often doesn't cover the whole of the rent either so that also needs to come out of the standard allowance. Your council tax is reduced but many areas do not cover all of it. I had to pay £60/month council tax when I was on UC.

I admit that I do worry about my young adult children. They are at university and they hope to find jobs and work full-time. I worry that over the next decade, they and their peers will be taxed to the hilt in order to pay for all the different benefits and elderly care. It feels like an impossible situation.

Yes. If you present as homeless while pregnant or with a baby you would probably end up in temporary accommodation for a long time. If you joined the housing register while pregnant or with a baby you might get some priority for overcrowding, but you might not if the Council says your living room could be used as a bedroom, and your level of priority would likely be pretty low unless you are e.g. sharing facilities with another household.

This is it. In some places the average wages are below what it costs to rent an average flat. And home ownership is a vanishing prospect. It's not just people on benefits who are unable to afford housing costs. The housing crisis is really a supply and affordability crisis.

I used to work 12 hour days and now I work part time. I can tell you the less I work the less I want to work. Yes I’ve got older but I really do think it’s a mindset. We have generations of people now who wouldn’t be able to cope with full time working. It’s hard, particularly if you don’t enjoy it and it involves hard graft. We are out of condition now as a society. I don’t think you’ll ever get the terminally unemployed back to employment.

When I couldn’t afford a flat I got roommates. And a second job.

Instead of blaming people on benefits. Blame the rich elite. They are the ones that keep you down.

I work full time (while in receipt of help with childcare costs) and I can tell you I could quite happily fill my time elsewhere if I won the lottery. I think that is pretty universal. But needs must.

The thing to remember is there are reasons why the chronically unemployed are unemployed and usually there are issues that fly under the radar like lack of resilience, mental health challenges that aren't maybe bad enough for the likes of pip etc but that would make it hard for people to find and sustain the challenges that come with employment, often lack of confidence is a major factor I saw in my work as an employability support worker, plus unstable lives - if your housing or family situation etc is regularly in crisis its harder to focus on work, lack of affordable childcare depending on where you live, lack of reliable transport costs depending on where you live, having a background of being in care, having certain convictions, managing addiction or other trauma, having been bullied, having to take on caring roles that make it difficult to sustain regular work, being unwell but struggling to get a clear diagnosis. There are so many reasons why people who on the surface look like they could work, don't feel empowered enough to do so.

"When I couldn’t afford a flat I got roommates. And a second job."

When I started out I flatshared and worked and for a 3 bed terrace we paid £150pcm each. I recently helped house 3 young people in the same street in the same type of house and the rent was £1000pcm. The young people were not eligible for benefits and were on minimum wage so that was a significant chunk of wages. They ended up having to work so many hours to cover rent they dropped out of education and will now be trapped in minimum wage, not earning enough to save and not achieving the qualifications to further themselves. If they had had help with housing costs they'd have sustained education and ended up being higher contributers with better paid jobs. Also- those houses have not improved since I lived there. Many were full of damp etc they are not worth that level of inflation but landlords know they have the monopoly.

I live off benefits due to disabilities. It was never my "full time mission" to live off them. I would rather be well!

Pretty offensive and also wrong of you to say that people like me are choosing this life.

Lol you would of hated me. Had a child at 16 and didn't get an actual job till she started school. I didn't know much about stuff like this so cluelessly walked around for four years having no idea so many people resented me 😂

I've never been unemployed since so don't rip me too hard 😂

They ended up having to work so many hours to cover rent they dropped out of education and will now be trapped in minimum wage, not earning enough to save and not achieving the qualifications to further themselves

I really hope that isn’t the message we’re giving young people. There are lots of routes to qualifications and better jobs that don’t involve university full time or need someone to stop working. It’s not at all unusual for young people starting out to need to work and train/study at the same time. It may not be the easiest road but it’s certainly possible.

Full time minimum wage is around £1500 a month so between 3 people £1000 month rent should be manageable without massive amounts of overtime, and it’s possible to access flexible study to gain a needed qualification while working full time. I have two professional qualifications both gained while working full time.

Saying they’re now trapped in minimum wage jobs is incredibly defeatist.

usually there are issues that fly under the radar like lack of resilience, mental health challenges that aren't maybe bad enough for the likes of pip etc but that would make it hard for people to find and sustain the challenges that come with employment, often lack of confidence is a major factor I saw in my work as an employability support worker, plus unstable lives - if your housing or family situation etc is regularly in crisis its harder to focus on work,

Yes the reasons for chronic unemployment are often complex, however, some of what you’re listing are things we all need to find a way through. Not feeling resilient, low level mental health issues, lack of confidence, having been bullied are all life circumstances that may need support but as a society we can’t sustain paying indefinitely because people find it hard to work. If the safety net wasn’t there, many of our chronically under confident, lacking resilience young people would no doubt find a way to sustain employment.

It’s not remotely healthy for someone to move from school to benefits with the unspoken assumption that if work is too hard they can stay on benefits. Its hard starting out, but you do need to start and for most people that’s going to mean a low level job, learning new skills, meeting new people and learning how to meet targets etc. it does get easier but hiding under your duvet won’t help you develop resilience or gain confidence.

In theory yes, but it's not always that easy especially when you add in other factors like trauma or those other complexities mentioned.

"If the safety net wasn’t there, many of our chronically under confident, lacking resilience young people would no doubt find a way to sustain employment." You are correct... we would ALSO have many more children going into care (we currently have the highest rates ever seen and there is nowhere for them to go) higher rates of poverty, higher rates of crime, exploitation and anti community behaviour, higher pressure on the already struggling NHS for mental health and addiction issues, more reliance on food banks who are now serving more employed people than ever before and are under pressure, more homelessness including street homelessness in the midst of a housing crisis. And all of these are factors which ironically put people out of work. It would also stop people from having children and we are already in an ageing population - we needLooking after the vulnerable in our society serves us as a society. It helps maintain social order and creates an overall safer and more resilient community.

"Saying they’re now trapped in minimum wage jobs is incredibly defeatist"

The flexible study modes you mention often have costs attached. If you are starting out and have no family support and your salary is eaten with housing and other essential bills then it becomes extremely difficult to access flexible study because you can't save to afford it. Where I used to work we were the only free mode of study/ pathway to employment for young people in the area. When our funding was cut their next closest was 2 hours away with no consistent transport links. For some people it will be much harder than others - you're suggesting the playing field is level but it isn't. So we need a benefits system that supports the most disadvantaged and that usually means making sure that we aren't overly restrictive in how financing is allocated.

With kids as well?

So we need a benefits system that supports the most disadvantaged and that usually means making sure that we aren't overly restrictive in how financing is allocated.

I know very well about the impact of trauma, poverty and disadvantage and about the challenges in balancing everything. And no it’s not a level
playing field, it never has been. The levels of young people not in education, employment or training are ever increasing - meaning young people aren’t successfully transitioning to the work place, which is needed not just economically but also from a health and welfare point of view - it’s not good for young people (or indeed anyone) to be out of work unnecessarily. And certainly not good to start off in adulthood without any expectation to work.

While care numbers are increasing in England they aren’t in other parts of the UK, and the jury is out on whether that means more children are being cared for safely in their families or whether children are being left for too long in dangerous circumstances. Your assertion that getting young people into work is the source of societal ills isn’t supported in research.

There’s a line to be walked, obviously, but young people being left to languish on benefits isn’t the answer

Would anyone care to swap my Moderate Cerebral Palsy and bipolar disorder for my enhanced PIP and ESA??
If not, Please do enlighten me!

I'm not saying anyone should be left to languish on benefits - I worked for years trying to boost youth employability. Of course I recognise that people are better working in terms of mental health or empowerment.

My point is simply that for some that will be a long process and the benefits system needs to work for the interim while that work is being completed. Especially since the money for services that would have filled this gap previously is has been drastically cut. You can't take away people's benefits but not offer resources to support them into work either- it needs to work together. I'm not in England but I am in UK and the numbers of yp going into care here are definitely increasing as are the number of young people being placed in unsuitable or unregulated placements as a result. And yes I would say that there has been an ongoing reduction in appropriate early intervention work since covid mainly due to a trust wide staffing crisis. The threshold for accessing ss support has definitely been increased and when people are left to it, there will be more families reaching crisis point. But financial hardship will only ever inflate this.

I'm not suggesting that getting young people into work is creating social ills at all. I'm suggesting that poverty is. And removing money from people without a suitable alternative, holistic pathway to work will increase rates of poverty. Ultimately there needs to be an uplift in wages overall but that's coming from above so there's no point in sending blame down the ladder. And so many employability supports are so focused on getting young people into employment that we forget that young people also need easier and more flexible access to education.