Finding it hard not to resent friend on benefits

[ArlJudey]

I’m friends with a woman, she has 4 kids all fairly young still. She’s single (dad not in the country so no maintenance), she lives in a 3 bed council house that is nicer than my home (okay she got lucky as I know some of the council houses around here are awful but she’s in a lovely spacious house). She works 15 hours a week, above minimum wage but I don’t know by how much, she gets UC and child benefit and Scottish child payment on top of this, I know she doesn’t have any family help etc.

Anyway met with this friend today and she complained that she can’t afford to go anywhere nice on holiday, she’s going to Egypt in the summer for the week; last year she went to Greece so she’s hardly slumming it. She brags about having no debt at all, her kids have nice clothes (though I know she is a Vinted wizard), doesn’t seem to struggle at Christmas, uses gousto every week etc.

AIBU to resent that she seems to have a much nicer life than I do with 2 kids working full time (also single). I know there are some obvious differences like I have a small amount of debt I’m paying off and have a car to pay for/fuel/insure.
I really don’t get how on benefits she’s doing it!

We aren't talking about disabled people here. I have often and loudly said that people who experience involuntary misfortune (rather than the consequences of personal choices) should of course be receiving assistance.

The idea that for able people, a job is just to "supplement" benefits, is repugnant.

No, I used my SAVINGS to live on while I retrained, and worked throughout, so that I emerged with no debt. It can be done if one is prudent and responsible.

I am pretty sure that the father of your kids divorcing you, leaving the country, and not paying anything towards his own children, comes under involuntary misfortune.
But you seem to think that OPs friend brought this on herself. I hope she still has the receipt for her crystal ball as it was clearly faulty.

And she has a small child and does not have to work at all under UC rules. She is actually doing more than she needs to... probably to maintain her career, so she can earn better once her youngest is at school. She is already planning her future well.

Yes, but if everyone in low paying but essential roles retrained who'd be left to wipe your bottom in hospital or stack the shelves in waitrose? How do you think schools would run ? The local council ? Every school,every hospital,every public sector service has people working full time in essential roles that pay low enough wages for them to be entitled to Extra government help ...

Which means you need to be in the position to make savings in the first place. Which is much harder if you're paying for childcare or high rental costs. I can't understand why you can't see how this all works in a circle.

"We aren't talking about disabled people here" in my post which you responded to I clearly said vulnerable adults.

In fact this is an excellent point - we have no idea WHAT benefits ops friend gets - perhaps she is on disability benefits and works as much as is manageable. We really have no idea given that it's not really any of our business and even people in receipt of benefits are not obligated to share their medical history with Joe public just so we can decide how harshly to judge them.

Responsible people accumulate savings and emergency funds BEFORE they procreate. They don't wing it willy-nilly and expect the taxpayer to be their backup.

Stop ascribing prudent planning, responsiblity, delayed gratification and living within one's means to "luck."

Or, as the old expression goes, "I find that the harder I work the luckier I get." Some people might want to reflect on that.

I call having more kids than one can afford to rear a self-created situation, not involuntary misfortune. And I doubt Mr. Wonderful was a perfect prince before he did a 180 character change and ran away. Would love to ask her family for their take.

There are 10 million people of working age on benefits. Over 5 million claiming disability benefits.

Which doesn’t leave a lot working age mugs who are paying for this circus of a system.

Anyone who cannot see that this is a problem or insists that this is ok and defends this is not very smart. Don’t worry folks, keep going, the number of mugs paying for this are leaving the country in their tens of thousands each year. Soon you’ll be wondering what happened to the freebies. This country is in serious trouble, given the entitled attitude of so many who have 0 understanding that if you continue borrowing and printing money to give out handouts, eventually you run out of money.

She was happily married, and her spouse was in a good job. They could afford their children. Or are you saying no one should have kids in case their spouse leaves them?

OP said her friend has gone through an awful time with it all. But you come on here with your assumptions about her choice of men, her savings, her intentions etc. And you speak from such a place of privilege you don't even know much about the benefit system or the properly terminology for it.

I think you are on the wind up. No one can be this tone deaf.

Tbh I’ve been reading all your comments and I think you have actually taken it too far.

While I started this post, it wasn’t meant as an attack on my friend, rather the system.

Her husband was very much a stand up man, she still isn’t really sure why he disappeared back to Jordan (he’s given her different stories). She has a degree (Business Studies with French and Arabic).

Sure we could argue that 4 kids is more than anyone can really afford and maybe she should have stopped at 3, however even I don’t know why she had a 4th and it’s really not our place to speculate. I was on birth control and ended up pregnant, perhaps it was the same for her ?

Its stupid to say people should only have as many children as they can afford alone, raising children isn’t meant to be a one person job, if we did that I doubt the majority could afford any children.

I was resentful and envious as it seems like she has a much better life than I do but that’s not an attack on her as a person or her choices.

You seem very bitter so I’d argue that you haven’t done everything right in life - if you had you probably wouldn’t care so much what decisions other people have made.

Be mad at the system not the people!

I can see where you are coming from op, evan if some people commenting on here cant. I agree with you, if someone recieving benefits can afford a holiday abroad every year, and someone who works full time cant, then they dont need the benefits. I know I will get slated for this.

As for those saying bringing kids up on your own is hard, yes I am not disputing that, but that does not mean they deserve more more money than 2 working parents, or evan 1 working parent. All kids need the same financial support. Sometimes being in a relationship dosent make it easier, despite what a lot of single women seem to think. It could be an abusive relationship, or 1 parent might not pull their weight financally or emotionally. 1 partner might be lazy or might be cheating. People just see a couple bringing up a child/children and assume they are better off.

And 40% of people claiming UC are ALSO WORKING, but their earnings are so low they need to claim some UC to live. We seem to have a situation where the welfare state is subsidising employers' wage bills, which also isn't right. How can it be that the wealth gap between the 1% and the 99% has become an absolute chasm? And why is it that some people are always inclined to punch down, rather than up?

You do realise that many,many people who receive benefits do actually work full time ?

It’s not too late. Do it if you think it’s that easy.

OP has not said what her friend gets in UC. But she also works so some of that money in her own pot will be her own earned cash.
40% of people in UC are in work. She is one of them, and you can't say they are not allowed to go on holiday etc. How they spend their money is up to them... and from what OP is saying, her friend is good at budgeting, always buys second hand clothing, does not have a car etc.

If someone on benefits is able to save, or have some nice things, that does not mean they are claiming too much. Or are you saying that any left over money after bills etc should go back to the DWP?

Yup.

As for those saying bringing kids up on your own is hard, yes I am not disputing that, but that does not mean they deserve more more money than 2 working parents, or evan 1 working parent. All kids need the same financial support

utterly bonkers. The person being discussed WORKS! I mean, you are suggesting that single people cannot earn as much as 2 people. Why? What is your logic? We all earn what we earn, some more than others. A single parent earning, say, £100k shouldn’t have as much money as 2 parents earning minimum wage?

all kids don’t need the same financial support. My child with a disability costs me more than the two who don’t have a disability. I live in a cheap area, so my children don’t cost as much as those in London, where rents and mortgages are way more than the rest of the country. Think. Just think.

It's interesting that you reference the challenge of being in an abusive relationship while simultaneously suggesting that single mothers should get less support therefore making it harder for women with children to leave domestic violence relationships.

And again I will say that you cannot plan for every eventuality. I had thousands saved before I tried to have my ds to cover my mat leave and anything ds might need and saved something every month while i was on mat leave. Stbxh and I were together for a long time before then- working to get to a position where we felt stable enough to try for a child, both of us climbing a career ladder to do so. I had waited until later in life to have a child so I was doing it with the right person who my family and friends all loved who seemed completely hard working and dependable. You can imagine what a horrible shock it was to discover his affair given how completely out of character it was. Which is why I stayed and we did counselling and he cut all ties and I put in all the emotional work until I realised he was still at it. He then lost his job and now contributes very little to ds while I pay everything and am left holding the baby. Sometimes you can do everything as you are supposed to - all the prudent planning, taking responsiblity, delayed gratification and it still goes to shit. Or your partner dies. Or you end up losing your jobs and can't get another one. No-one is realistically in a position to have 18 years worth of child related costs in the bank before trying to procreate - for most people their fertility would have ended before reaching that stage. And that's before we even touch on the fallibility of birth control or coercive control/intimate partner rape etc or how much fertility treatments can cost. Your thinking is extremely black and white and it doesn't work in the real world. What it would do is punish people - namely children- who are in vulnerable positions.

And why would the OPs friend not have structure to their day. Whether it's a work day or dealing with the kids. Does that mean a SAHM has not got any structure to their day either?
A relative of mine is currently not working and on UC. SHES GOT A 4 week old baby and 2 year old and a husband that is undergoing treatment for cancer and isn't well enough to work.

Where's her poor choices ( she was pregnant before his diagnosis)

Ido you feel hard done to or do you want someone else to have the same stress as you maybe you’re stronger and better able to cope
you want to get a gratitude list going for what’s good in your life and stop making comparisons there will always be people who have “more “ than us “financially/emotionally in relationships if you try to separate things you do and don’t have power over life on the surface is not fair but we can choose to be happy it’s wise not to inventory someone else’s life we can’t know what struggles they are going through I would try to concentrate on what I can do to improve the lives of my nearest and dearest
you should let this resentment go -I doubt if anyone else will be loosing sleep over it!

Not planning for how they would cope with one partner ill or disabled, for starters.

That’s the prudent way to plan a family.

Well she hardly knew he was going to become ill while she was pregnant did she? They were both working when she conceived

Anyone can be ill/disabled at any time. It can happen over night. It could happen 2 days after your "prudent" planning.

What sort of insurance policies exist for husbands leaving and refusing to pay child support?

But everyone makes risk assessments based on what they know and the information they have at the time. If two people are in generally good health why should they live like they'll die tomorrow and not actually participate in life or enjoy life as a result? I think it would be quite sad to get to 90 years old with plenty of wealth around you and no much wanted family to share it with. Surely you'd just be living with a very different type of regret at that point?

I was devastated by how things had turned out in my life and how it impacted me but I will never, ever regret my child. In fact if I'd never had him and I'd wasted all my fertile years saving for him instead, that would have been a whole other level of grief that would have stuck with me a lifetime.

Prudent is great but you're completely removing human emotion. People are not robots.