Finding it hard not to resent friend on benefits

[ArlJudey]

I’m friends with a woman, she has 4 kids all fairly young still. She’s single (dad not in the country so no maintenance), she lives in a 3 bed council house that is nicer than my home (okay she got lucky as I know some of the council houses around here are awful but she’s in a lovely spacious house). She works 15 hours a week, above minimum wage but I don’t know by how much, she gets UC and child benefit and Scottish child payment on top of this, I know she doesn’t have any family help etc.

Anyway met with this friend today and she complained that she can’t afford to go anywhere nice on holiday, she’s going to Egypt in the summer for the week; last year she went to Greece so she’s hardly slumming it. She brags about having no debt at all, her kids have nice clothes (though I know she is a Vinted wizard), doesn’t seem to struggle at Christmas, uses gousto every week etc.

AIBU to resent that she seems to have a much nicer life than I do with 2 kids working full time (also single). I know there are some obvious differences like I have a small amount of debt I’m paying off and have a car to pay for/fuel/insure.
I really don’t get how on benefits she’s doing it!

As someone who does budgeting work for vulnerable adults and single parents most of whom are solely on benefits this is actually laughable. Very often I even struggle to make ends meet for them unless they've a job coming in to supplement their benefits. Often there is no room left over for new clothes and other essentials. If someone is doing well enough on benefits to be able to afford a yearly holiday, pay their bills and afford Christmas then they are budgeting well. Because that's what op is judging this woman on - one holiday a year, being able to get her kids Christmas presents and not moaning about it and keep food on her table. And to me it's really ironic that the housing crisis and inflated COL is a huge contributing factor to why people are struggling and yet posters like @theherboriste are still happy to defend private landlords and the owning of multiple homes while people are forced out of areas they have family in due to inflated rental costs, and have to pay more in childcare as a result which funnily enough is one of the key factors that puts women out of the work force particularly in a full time capacity. Doing well through hard work is one thing but let's be honest - the woman in ops post has put in the hard work. She's put herself through education and got a good job. SHE did everything she was supposed to. And she was let down badly by someone else who did not do his part. The consequences here should be for the feckless father to hold him accountable to make it less easy for men to cut and run from the kids they should be paying for.

"Most of you have no clue about the sort of hard work it takes to become financially comfortable in middle age; so many expect the lifestyle of an established older adult who's worked all of their lives, with zero dues-paying, zero patience and extremely low effort."

I'm sorry but this is utter BS. Firstly- 'most of us' - you have no idea who other posters are. I've been working at least one job since I was 16, up until I had ds I worked two jobs not because I needed to but because I wanted to have the savings and the career development that having two jobs meant. I put myself through two degrees and a masters. I'm sure plenty of people here know about hard work. I would also suggest that the difference in property prices now to say 20 years ago is a massive difference and wages have not risen accordingly, people are also more likely to have benefitted from generational wealth via inheritance by middle age than younger people are for obvious reasons.

The bit this misses is that if you are well secure by middle age you have also been extremely LUCKY. Hard work is only part of it and if you can't see that then you don't know your own privilege and it's pointless arguing.

What do you mean?

The Op's friend has a degree, and works part-time in her related industry.
When her DCs are older, she is planning to go full-time.

Why would she only be getting the basic state pension?

Edited to correct spelling error.

Why shouldn't people live within their means?

When I wanted more spending power I retrained and qualified for higher-paying jobs.

"Investing in real estate" rather than seeing as house as a home has led to the cost of housing shooting up. Which has led to private renters being forced to claim the housing element of UC, many of whom wouldn't have had to claim at all if their rent wasn't so high. From the taxpayer. Which funnels straight into the pocket of landlords."

This is also one of the key reasons behind the social housing crisis because former social housing has been turned into private rentals and social housing providers are now under increasing pressure to purchase properties at market value which has been inflated so much due to private landlord competition. And there's so much greed. Where I live 5 years ago pre covid a 2 bed terrace in a not particularly nice area would have gone for £450 a month. The same house now is on the market for £1000 a month. This makes it near on impossible for young people who are living independently to save because wages are being eaten by rent meaning they can't get onto the property ladder, they can't access social housing as easily and the landlords have the monopoly and continue increasing rent just because they can. Thus making the rich richer and the poor poorer all the while blaming people for needing to rely on benefits.

Most people on benefits are living within their means. If they cut back in some areas, or are good at budgeting, then they can afford some luxuries and they deserve them.

'When I wanted more spending power I simply spent more money to retrain'

If you don't have the Income/support network/ the local resources or infrastructure/ affordable housing or childcare then retraining is a pie in the sky idea.

Presumably when you retrained someone supported you to do so? I'd also guess that if you're 65 now that the cost of education then was nowhere near what it is now.

Plus it's about allowing people to live with dignity. Which is so basic.

The fact that you think a part-time job is to "supplement benefits" says it all.

I do live within my means and as a full time working tax payer I claim what I am legally entitled to....I am fortune enough to be mortgage free and as I said previously,I am great at budgeting hence being able to prioritise nice holidays.

She isn't "on the dole" she works

But people on benefits are not living within their OWN means, they are living on handouts. In other words, they are living on the means of hardworking contributors.

Living within what one earns, not what one receives as a handout, is the goal. It's laughable to say one is "good at budgeting" the money that is taken from otehrs and handed to one. Who wouldn't be??

So I say this as someone who grew up in poverty with a single parent, in council house etc. We never had a family holiday. Ever. System is broke if you afford a holiday abroad every year. That isn’t what taxpayer support is for.

that being said everyone manages budgets differently. Maybe she never eats out always cooks from scratch. No debt you said, buys vintedcloths not designer wear. No car. Doesn’t smoke or drink? Choices.

I have been poor and even as an adult unemployed. I NEVER want the stress of low income and fear of not paying bills.

That poster is so out of touch with reality, they don't even know what benefits are for or what they are actually called.

Will you be claiming the state pension?

For some vulnerable people benefits will always be their primary source of income due to illness or disability like I said so yes part time work will supplement their benefits especially if its difficult for them to sustain employment or get enough hours of employment to earn more than they would on benefits. If you can't understand how that might be necessary for people with disabilities then I think that says it all actually.

So if you worked full time and were entitled to claim child benefit for any kids you had who were in education - you'd just say no thanks? You never received child benefit/ free milk for your kids in school etc? Always chose to pay privately for your healthcare never relying on the NHS for your kids dental treatment etc?

Or would you take what you're entitled to and include it in your budgeting?

I strongly suggest the latter.

I work extremely hard ! Are you suggesting that the hundreds and 1000s of health care workers,sales staff,childcare workers and public sector support workers that help keep the country running somehow don't deserve more than survival rations just because these essential roles pay minimum wage ?

I won’t lie. I’m a single parent who works full time in a challenging job with two children who are in paid childcare… and I know there are some parents who aren’t working, who aren’t paying for the hours I do, or the same amount for school meals, or their rent etc etc… and on those really tough days I think “what am I doing it all for?!”

I try and think bigger picture. I want my children to grow up knowing that hard work pays off. Yes I have to pay a mortgage but one day this home will be theirs to inherit. Whilst social housing is very secure, more recent tenancies may mean that when the children grow up and move out, pressure will be on to downsize.

I also want to in-still into my children how important it is to work hard. Some parents genuinely cannot work due to health/care commitments, but for the small minority who are choosing not to work… I believe I am setting a better example for my children. So long as our bills are paid, nobody can dictate to me where we live.

And honestly, the reality of being on benefits and not having structure to your day, would get very boring, very quickly.

I can see why people get annoyed- UC is far more generous than tax credits ever was. I work in this field and most are better off on UC. Also, it’s possible for single parents to work the minimum house and get a very decent top up. UC can definitely top some wages when you take into account childcare etc.
but
One day kids grow up and a life spent avoiding work catches up. This can be really hard and I’ve seen some women really struggle with having to pay rent and for their lifestyle with no government help.. especially when the kids drop out or leave college. Honestly, living off UC can be very disempowering and can prevent people from professing or building any kind of independent life. It’s called the benefits trap for a reason.

But the minimum hours are 30 hours a week when your child starts school, 35 when they move to secondary. Which is a full time job, no?

OP's friend has a small child not yet in school, and she does work 15 hours a week. Kid is under 3, and you are not expected to find work at all at that age. OP's friend is already ahead if she is working the hours she already does. She doesn't actually need to.

The irony is that the government pays me such a low salary for working full time that I'm entitled to UC.Would make much more sense to cut out the middle man and just pay people decent wages so they don't have to rely on top ups.

This is the problem though - so many jobs now even if people did look at retraining are no longer lucrative enough to compete with rising living costs. In my sector I'm highly specialised in my role and one step below ceo level but my sector is general is really underpaid and chronically under funded so I still am entitled to help with childcare (thank goodness or I wouldn't be able to afford that plus rent). I looked at retraining but I'd be spending my savings to retrain into a new sector that would actually mean taking a paycut to start from the bottom again which financially isn't feasible as a one person household. I'm still better paid than many other reputable professions that would previously have been seen as 'good' careers.

Gusto for a family of 5 costs about 60 quid a week, if she is doing that on top of all the other grocery shopping you need to supplement it, she needs to become a budgeting guru.

You know that thousands of people on benefits are also working? And are therefore hardworking contributors, such as you seem to admire. I teach full time - I was entitled to tax credits for years. When I first started, my salary was a little more than my childcare bill. I mean, we’d have been on the streets without tax credits. Ironic, really, when you consider it was the Government paying my salary.