AIBU to suggest it is time to stop the pretence that people can transition?

[happydappy2]

I really feel gender ideology is a cult, that has totally warped some peoples minds. It brings so many problems to society I’m not sure it’s sustainable. It damages the health of young people, shortens their lives and often rips families apart. At what point do we say no, this is not healthy, it’s incredibly antisocial to expect everyone else to pretend you are the opposite sex when they can see you aren’t….for the good of society let’s stop this madness. Gender dysphoria exists yes but I don’t think we’re treating it in the best way. We don’t affirm that an anorexic patient is indeed too fat so why do we affirm people who think they are the opposite sex?

OK, genuine question.

How would you make a toilet policy which would permit or deny someone access to opposite sex toilets based on whether they had had genital surgery or not?

Like, how would that work in practice?

Nobody is born with functional male and female genitalia. This doesn’t happen. Of course women who don’t have children are still women.

Seriously, the cognitive dissonance of calling oneself "progressive" whilst declaring that a man wearing a dress is no longer a man but a woman. It's like something from the 19th century.

But at least they didn't then encourage people to mutilate their bodies because they wanted to wear non-stereotypical clothes.

Telling a woman who wears clothes that are considered masculine in British culture that she must actually be a man is equally offensive and regressive. Do the people coming out with this nonsense not realise that used to be the argument for stopping women wearing trousers or having careers?

Some of us just want to be who we are without sexist stereotypes being forced on us. Telling us we are no longer women because of how we dress or our hobbies is sexist and oppressive.

Nobody should need to mutilate their body just to dress how they like and pursue the interests they enjoy. I think wanting people to be free to live as they wish without harming others is much kinder than encouraging them to permanently mutilate themselves to imitate the sex whose social stereotypes they match most.

Just support people to make peace with who they are.

For those that want us to call them by different pronouns - I mean is it such a huge deal to say this?

The huge deal was when a great many women were literally forced, at a great many workplaces, to use pronouns for other people which they knew quite well were wrong, and to append pronouns to their own names which they absolutely did not want to possess, or share with others.

Women who like football and engineering are NOT less female than women who like shoes and knitting ffs!

i don’t feel my rights are under any threat at all.I understand some may have different views. I stand by all to be accepted as they are. As a woman I just don’t feel the threat of trans people to my womanhood or safety. I do have 5 people I know in my workplace, in my gym and just socially who are trans. In my youth I went to many many bars, parties, clubs etc that were for all - very gay friendly and trans friendly / led. I sometimes feel the language and tone (not saying here in mumsnet but in media) has been a bit reminscent of the way people who presented as queer/ gay/ bi 20+ years ago we’re spoken of as “other” to be feared, people who then were treated as a threat to children and to society in general. (Clause 28 anyone). Essentially they were told their rights were not equal to heteros. I seriously hope we aren’t following down a similar path.

Lol...yes, the definitions of male and female do relate to your reproductive role. It's the same in humans as it is in all other animals. It doesn't matter whether you actually reproduce or not.

A newborn baby is not fertile (and may be one of the minority who never becomes fertile or never discovers whether they are fertile or not) but we can still identify them as male or female based on their external genitalia and we can already tell whether they have the potential to become a mother or a father one day.

There isn't a non sexual reproduction related definition of the words "male" and "female".

And yet we don’t treat other mental health conditions with chopping off body parts or adding new ones or try to make the world believe they really are (insert choice)

We treat them as mental health conditions and as if they are sick.

I listened to an interview with a detranstioner once who went along with everything because he was terrified he’d lose access to his psychiatrist. He was just a gay kid from an extremely homophobic background who needed someone to talk to. Broke my heart. He should never have been out in that position, it should have been “well it’s fine if you don’t want to transition, lets figure out your other problems instead”.

Biological sex is complicated. Before you discriminate against someone on the basis of “biological sex” & identity, ask yourself: have you seen YOUR chromosomes? Do you know the genes of the people you love? The hormones of the people you work with? The state of their cells?

Given that very many of these DSD's will have an observable physical impact - whether that's a visible bodily difference, a fertility issue, puberty not progressing as expected or another health condition - I'll wager that a good many adults have a bloody good idea of their chromosomes & hormones as they won't have experienced these issues. And many of the people who have experienced them will have undergone medical investigations - now they really will know their chromosomes. So no, I call bullshit that most us us have no idea. I went through a classic female puberty, conceived my children naturally, delivered them vaginally, breast fed them and am finally post menopause. Are you really saying I can't be sure what sex I am?

Yes there has been some major brainwashing going on in schools out of my DD's friendship group of about 10 or 11 all are gay or bisexual and all are pro trans. My DD said she and another girl are the only straight girls and she thinks it's all completely nuts!

You’ve twisted my meaning.
I didn’t mean less female, I mean that it’s ok to like engineering and football and be a really feminine woman or equally be a less feminine woman. It doesn’t matter, you’re still a female. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Regardless of whether you love dresses and make-up and girlie things, or you slob about in your jeans and wouldn’t dream of wearing a dress, you are still a female if that’s what you were born as.

Every trans person could be the loveliest most wonderful person in the world but it doesn’t mean you can sell women’s rights down the Swanee river. Don’t you get it? The ‘vitriol’ isn’t towards trans people. It’s female anger at being gaslighted and told our safety and dignity doesn’t matter. And you’re part of the problem. Your dumb ‘be kind’ mantra only prioritises men. What about our daughters, sisters and mothers? What is actually ‘sickening’ is the amount of willing handmaids that would betray their sisters on this issue.

As a secondary school teacher the explosion of transitioning is scary. Autistic girls seeing it on social media as a cure all. Unhappy Kids seeing it as a cure all. Attention seeking kids seeing it as a cure all.

It's a false equivalence.

Homosexuality is natural and exists throughout the animal kingdom.

Mutilating one's body to imitate the opposite sex is a uniquely cultural and social phenomenon in homo sapiens.

Encouraging and enabling people to do the latter is immoral.

We should just be accepting that some men like dresses or sparkly clothes and some women like short hair or engineering. Someone's personality doesn't change their sex.

I understand not needing or being asked to use pro nouns if don’t want to. But I just have a different opinion - if someone wants to be identified and this is important yo them - as he/ they or whatever, in my mind, I have zero issues with this. Same when someone gets married wanting to change from miss to mrs. But again, appreciate some may have differing views and respect this.

The downfall of society begins with the individual.

YANBU, OP.

There are many mental health conditions that we don't empower or affirm. The reason being, the detrimental damage it could do to either the sufferer or those around them. Gender dysphoria should be treated as such

Some years ago a major trans charity declared that transitioning cured autism. It’s not harmless.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690

When we see that image of the man tattooed head to toe. With those lumpy forehead implants. Do we think he is a real alien?

When we see the man tattooed and with whiskers do we think he is a real cat?

The people who DRESS up as babies and soil themselves are they real babies?

Exactly, I’ve never had a negative experience with a trans person (definitely met some cross dressers, they clearly had fetishes, but this was in the days when we knew we were looking at a cross dressers and were allowed to hold boundaries). I still don’t want someone I clearly identify as a male patting me down for a security check or sharing my space when I’m getting changed. Just the same as I don’t want any man as lovely as he is feeling around my bra at heathrow airport. I have a right to not be touched or vulnerable around men.

Why is that mans desire to feel validated more important than my desire to feel safe.

What is the issue tho with kids at 10/11 being gay/ bisexual? Isn’t that something to be proud of - that they feel comfortable expressing themselves and feel safe to do so?

You might know nice trans people, but in the last few days thousands of trans activists have been taking to the streets across the UK to march in protest against the Supreme Court judgment.

Among them have been a number of violent males carrying placards threatening physical violence against "TERFs" (aka women who say no to their demands) and threatening to stage a dirty protest using bottles of their own pee if they're told they can't use the toilets of their choosing.

These are the same men who regularly show up at women's rights demonstrations with weapons and balaclavas, to assault women.

Do you think it is unreasonable to want to keep those people out of women's single sex toilets, changing rooms, rape crisis groups and shelters?

They're still children at that age!