AIBU to suggest it is time to stop the pretence that people can transition?

[happydappy2]

I really feel gender ideology is a cult, that has totally warped some peoples minds. It brings so many problems to society I’m not sure it’s sustainable. It damages the health of young people, shortens their lives and often rips families apart. At what point do we say no, this is not healthy, it’s incredibly antisocial to expect everyone else to pretend you are the opposite sex when they can see you aren’t….for the good of society let’s stop this madness. Gender dysphoria exists yes but I don’t think we’re treating it in the best way. We don’t affirm that an anorexic patient is indeed too fat so why do we affirm people who think they are the opposite sex?

Wtf 😒

All that stuff is still vanishingly rare, though, and they are anomalies in an otherwise binary system. I think many people like to complicate issues with their own agendas, and forget that as a biological species, our prime directive is to reproduce and that means 2 gametes, eggs and sperm. It’s pretty simple really. Therefore the vast majority of humans are male or female, with occasional mutations and abnormalities (and no, that doesn’t mean anyone with these anomalies is worth less as a person, it’s simply fact). There is no third sex (intersex) as everyone with a DSD is primarily one or the other. Coming from a biological scientist.

It’s not though and they shouldn’t mutilate themselves to achieve something that can never ever happen in reality.

More should be done so that young people recognise that it’s ok to be, for example, a female who doesn’t feel very female and doesn’t conform to normal female stuff. Same with males. Everyone fits under their biological male or female banner, but where you sit on that banner is absolutely up to you. The transitioning thing needs to be stopped.

It’s ok to be a woman who prefers male clothes and shuns female stereotypes. That doesn’t mean you’re a man, it just means you are sitting further along the female banner than, say, Barbie is. Same with men. You might be an extremely feminine man who prefers wearing female clothes and/or make- up, and that’s fine too. But you’re still a man, you‘re just sitting on a different section of the male banner than Rambo is.

The notion that if you don’t like x, y and z then you must surely be the opposite sex is madness to me.

If men who identify as women were somehow 'born in the wrong body' then they would behave like women. And we now have years of evidence which shows that, as a class, they don't.

Obviously not all men, however they identify, are violent but 99% of sex crimes are committed by men. And over 70% of the transwomen currently in prison have committed sex crimes or other extremely violent crimes.

Only 3% of women have committed sex crimes.

More than 70 per cent of transgender prisoners are in for sex offences or violent crimes

I think there's a lot of trans hatred and ignorance on mumsnet and it's pretty shocking to be honest. Your opinion doesn't make something fact.

It is a fact that you can’t change sex though.

Well… all the people who don’t want to reproduce or can’t… is that our definition of the primary function of a male/ women? If we believe this, how does this impact all of those who can’t / don’t want to reproduce, incl our friends in LGBTQ+ community as much as hetero’s?

Depends what you mean by transition. I’m entirely happy for someone to dress and have hair etc more similar to the norm for the opposite sex. I don’t even have a problem with using different pronouns and given names. But we do need to be clear than this means transition to be a trans person, not transitioning to the opposite sex.

Isn’t this where CIS and Trans comes in?

You either belong to the sex class that produces eggs or the sex class which produces sperm, regardless of whether your own reproductive organs work or you do/don’t want children.

I agree. I remember in the 70s and 80s it was with pity that people looked upon someone dumb/brave enough to get their genitals surgically mutilated and they looked upon them as harmless and a bit eccentric.

But I would argue that many of the new wave ‘gender questioning’ aren’t doing it because of old-fashioned dismorphia. I think there are a lot of young people who simply don’t align themselves with stereotypical gender presentation and they’re desperately looking for something to identify with, or they’re just gay and confused by it. I think for some older men it’s pure fetishism. Obviously for the Isla Bryson types they see it as a get out of jail free card. And it worked. Get your victim to say ‘her penis’ in court and go straight to the women’s estate - happy days!

I think the insulting legal fiction ‘living as a woman’ needs to be removed. You’re either a biological woman or not. If you’re not, make peace with who you are. If you need therapy to do that that’s fine, but don’t coerce society to live and pander to a lie.

Totally agree.

Isn’t that where the idea of non binary comes in.?

There's no 'full surgery'.

There's no surgery or medication that can change someone's sex.

Surgery, hormones etc can only change some of the characteristics & modify some of the body parts but no one can ever 'change sex'

People can transition, but from a man to a trans woman or from a woman to a trans man and the difference should remain so, a trans woman is not a woman, two different meanings and two different sex’s.

The problem seems to be a trans woman is trying to say they are a woman, they are not, they’re a trans woman. The fact they are trying to blur the lines is what’s causing the problem, instead of accepting they was one sex and now identify as another, this still does not mean the sex they was born into has not changed.

Agree

So you think women’s rights, safety and dignity is no big deal then? And we should all be good girls and stfu about them?

Isn't everyone non-binary really? No one really fits these stereotypes. That's why gender identity is meaningless

It's very Emperor's new clothes. People were told 'be kind', don't say anything, you'll upset trans. People are seeing things clearly.

The scales have fallen off with the behaviour of some men who wear dresses stomping over women's rights, crashing into women's rape centres, changing rooms, cheating women out of their medals, telling women what women should do, say, be.

More and more people are waking up and seeing the damage of the social contagion to teens and young people. Awful damage. I don't want to enable that harm. The Cass report starting showing the damage done to young people.

I think people should stop trying to police stranger's bodily autonomy and speaking about them them like they're specimens to be dissected, as if you're not someone who is part of that demographic of people, you will never understand it or be able to speak about what should or shouldn't be done.

Its a mental illness
That we are chopping and changing people's bodies for and medicating with body altering meds
We will look back in years to come at women who chopped their breasts of and wonder what madness took over the country .

@PandyMoanyMum, all that tells you is there are TWO sexes in humans (and most other life forms) and that developmental DISORDERS exist. There's no third sex, no in-between sexes, no people with both sets of reproductive organs.

Things can go wrong during foetal development. They go wrong in any body part for an assortment of reasons. Babies are sometimes born with extra limbs, less than four limbs, with incomplete faces and all sorts. We don't say this proves the number of limbs a human has is complicated, do we? Or have you ever heard anyone insist the mouth and nose are not separate features and it's bigoted to assume they are?

It's very strange that people get so worked up about disorders of sexual development. The fact that they do shows, if anything, that sexual dimorphism's so strongly featured in humans that many can't get their heads around it. They find articles like the one you cited and go "Aaah! It's all so weird! None of us can know what sex we are!!"

People who actually have disorders/differences of sexual development know exactly what sex they are. Fyi, no female in the world produces sperm. That requires a Y chromosome. Some - a very, very few - males (people with a Y chromosome) develop female-pattern bodies. They do not produce sperm or ova. Since they've been raised a girls and, with hormonal help, develop as women, I tend to the view that people with Swyer syndrome are women. Some don't, because they are chromosomally male.

However, people with DSDs are extremely clear they reject the view of their disorders as proof of 'trans' and have repeatedly asked genderists NOT to use them as an argument. I don't blame them.

Thinking or feeling you ought to have been the other sex is not a DSD, it's the outcome of gender stereotyping. Any fucker can wear what they want and fancy whom they like, at least in cultures like ours. In some places, of course, people who are same-sex attracted or prefer to dress as the opposite sex are killed or forced to have genital surgery. Personally, I fail to see this as a model to emulate.

Biological facts is not hatred. Dress as anyone wants but let's not pretend anyone can change sex. They can't. That's not hatred, it's true.