AIBU to suggest it is time to stop the pretence that people can transition?

[happydappy2]

I really feel gender ideology is a cult, that has totally warped some peoples minds. It brings so many problems to society I’m not sure it’s sustainable. It damages the health of young people, shortens their lives and often rips families apart. At what point do we say no, this is not healthy, it’s incredibly antisocial to expect everyone else to pretend you are the opposite sex when they can see you aren’t….for the good of society let’s stop this madness. Gender dysphoria exists yes but I don’t think we’re treating it in the best way. We don’t affirm that an anorexic patient is indeed too fat so why do we affirm people who think they are the opposite sex?

Yes, I think things would be vastly improved if men stopped thinking they could determine what it means to be a woman

The fact is you can’t change sex. It’s that simple.

You can have your own feelings, you can’t have your own facts. Gender non conforming men/women are just that, gender non conforming. This doesn’t make them the opposite sex and these people have been sold down the river by trans activists.

The surgery doesn't actually do anything except compromise their health.

I think Trans people have been around for ever. The first operation for a trans person in Europe was in the 1930s … the idea that I would be so unhappy in my body that I have to undergo surgery is so drastic. My feeling is that, if someone is that unhappy that they will undergo years of therapy, drugs, then surgery … I mean it’s not an overnight jobbie… then they really are unhappy in their current body & after all that to be subject to abuse… I mean, just let them be in their new body. But, I respect that others have different views.

It is truly worrying, social contagion or culture like, sucking in the vulnerable, lots of autistic young people. Sold a lie. Poor kids. Some sort of experiment. Change and all your problems will disappear. Feels like grooming. I feel a major public inquiry into the huge grooming of vulnerable children into trans will come in the future. Children gave been failed not protected.

Define ‘full surgery’. They have undertaken surgery to produce a facsimile of the opposite sex’s primary and secondary sex characteristics.

I find it amazing that 19% of respondents here think it’s possible for humans to change sex. I’m aware there are quite a few issues in our educational system, but I didn’t think it was this bad!

And do few of them do............

Possibly why there’s so many messed up kids!

Yadda yadda yadda.

@PandyMoanyMum

Well that’s all very interesting if you’re doing a PhD on the genetics of sex but none of this applies to the vast majority of men who “feel” like they’re women or who have Autogynephila or other fetish. And no, we don’t have to respect people’s right to tell us who they are if they cannot respect our safety, dignity and existence.

Just because Lia Thomas tells us he is a woman, therefore be allowed a completely unfair advantage over his competitors, we absolutely do not need to respect that. Ditto Isla Bryson, Lexi Secker, Zara Jade or any of the other two-thirds of all TW prisoners who are sex offenders. Is anyone really so blinkered they cannot see what is going on here!

Come off it. I couldn't reproduce. I have PCOS. Despite the rather obvious fact that, in order to have PCOS, you must have functional ovaries and thus be female, the trans movement spent several years teaching that infertile women are not properly female. My grandparents' generation used to quietly say women with no children were "not real women" ... forgive me if I don't see that as a view worthy of respect.

It's quite staggering how backward the trans movement is. It appears to believe gender stereotypes are determinative of sex, to the point where boys who like sparkly dresses must really be girls and rambunctious girls must really be boys. Why the fuck would you want to align yourself with such a viciously restrictive ideology?

The genderist belief system treats same-sex attraction as an aberration, advocating 'sex change' for gay men and lesbians. You'll be aware that this is legally enforced on gay people in oppressive cultures like Iran? Do you really see this as desirable?

And it's LGB. No further letters or plus signs needed.

This!!!

Never ONCE have I been bothered by a transperson in my real life in any capacity.

The vitriol shown towards trans people on here is sickening.

Well they should be careful what they wish for really - if they do have their lives made hellish, then they will get a real taste of what it’s like to be a woman.

What makes me laugh is people complain about gender affirming surgery (for trans people) but women and men are out here getting all kinds of work done. Nose jobs, boob jobs, filler, hair transplants, BBLs, tummy tucks which are all gender affirming surgeries in themselves and to make the person feel more confident in their body🤷‍♀️

I’m not really sure why people keep discussing disorders of sexual development to argue for men becoming women, as if a minority of people having rare disorders means sex is now some confusing ambiguous spectrum for all of humankind.

It’s like saying because some humans are born with one eye or no eyes or three eyes, that the number of eyes humans have is on a spectrum and saying humans have two eyes is incorrect.

I’ve never been bothered by a murdering Mexican drug cartel - doesn’t mean they don’t slaughter thousands of people every year. It’s not about individual experiences - it’s about the rights of women and girls being eroded to satisfy the demands of deluded men who don’t offer women the same respect they demand.

The surgery itself is an awful lie for the minority who do it. A rolled up bit of your leg flesh is not the same as a penis in any way. Someone can’t literally construct a vagina for you, the cells, the function the way it works etc it is impossible. It’s like telling someone who needs a kidney that you can cut a bit of liver up into the shape of a kidney and it’ll be exactly the same. It’s an awful lie and I can’t help but to think that there are going to be an awful lot of people who feel extreme regret once they realise whats been done to them. It’s actually horrific to me.

A lot of this is down to the dishonesty around the whole subject, you can’t change sex, you can’t have organs like they develop on the opposite sex, you will be on hormones for the rest of your life which can irreparably damage your health (and I’ve seen some studies which suggest have an impact on global cognition). I do believe that some people will genuinely be more happy and peace with themselves if they can live as the opposite sex, wear the clothes, change their name etc. But the lie that you can become the opposite sex is horribly damaging, especially to children who are subjected to this fantasy, they are too young to know better. The WPATh files demonstrated how much children did not understand about what they were being ushered into. The weaponisation of children is one of the most revolting things about this movement.

Not really. You are still a female even if you don’t relate to anything feminine. Non-binary doesn’t exist. The fact people might refer to you as ‘she/her’ is the thing these people need to get their heads around. It literally doesn’t mean anything other than a way to refer to someone without using their name.

You can be at the very ‘male’ end of the female banner, but you are still a female. Non-binary doesn’t need to suddenly come into it.
It’s ok to be a female who doesn’t really feel female! You don’t have to be non-binary. You might not think of yourself as a female, you’ve just got to occasionally accept people might call you she or her. They are just words.

Also some people are born with both male and female genitalia

All people are either biological males or biological females, regardless of the existence of DSDs.

And in any case, only 0.018% of babies are born with a DSD. They're really rare.

I think it needs further medical gatekeeping with more psychiatrictic work first rather than affirmation straight away, you can't stop the people taking it into their own hands with DIY hormones but you can at least do harm reduction in state/private care. Gender/sex dysphoria is certainly real but not all cases require transition and there's a big difference between someone with actual dysphoria and somebody who doesn't fit into the stereotypical gender roles for their sex.

There also needs to be more honesty about the actual procedures and the life long effects too but that can really depend on whether it's state funded or private doctors.

I think selling the false ideal too that TWAW/TMAM needs to stop politically and within that field and that it makes you a transsexual woman or man and to accept that as it is, but you have not changed sex and you aren't afforded the sex based rights of whichever way you've gone.

As a person born as a woman at birth I do not understand why there is a focus on this at the moment

Maybe because your sex-based rights as a woman have literally been under extreme threat from the TRAs recently........

Just words…this is where I think it’s different for some. For those that want us to call them by different pronouns - I mean is it such a huge deal to say this.? I mean, we use all sorts of prefixes all the time in society in addition to he/ she…. sir: miss; lord/ lady; miss/ mrs/ ms; etc. To support those who it does mean a great deal too - just like those who get married don’t want to be called miss anymore they are mrs etc - why can’t we just accept and say it. Again, respect others may have different views.

It also assumes that the vast majority of people are “binary” in some sort of way. That we cluster around male and female archetypes of personality. I have no idea what being a woman “feels” like. The most female I’ve ever felt was when I was feeling threatened by a male and when I was pregnant and then giving birth and the immediate time afterwards. It’s when my sex was most salient to me.

The feeling like a woman or a man thing just doesn’t make sense to me, a lot of my feelings about the world are probably informed by my sex more than any notion of gender I may or may not have. I totally understand why someone may have dysphoria about the sex of their body, I imagine it’s a bit like people with body integrity identity disorder. But the notion of “well I don’t feel like a woman or a man” in the gender sense, well yes how many people have a sense of gender identity that isn’t connected to their sex and how they interact with their sexed body in society.

Nobody's saying men can't have breast implants if they want and are willing to pay for them.

What we're saying is it doesn't make them women. They're men with breasts.

Well in that instance, the person tells their family and friends to just use their name and not refer to them as he or she.
But in public, people might refer to them as their biological sex. It doesn’t mean anything, it’s just those people aren’t aware of your preferences.
A bit like you might be Jennifer but go by Jen. People who don’t know you (hospital appointment, for instance) might call you Jennifer. Is it really such a big deal for a one off??
Same with he/she. Is it such a big deal if one random person you’ll never see again calls you he or she?