Are men going to now wholeheartedly welcome trans women into their spaces? Utterly brilliant if so ...

[loveyouradvice]

Embracing the full breadth of what it means to be a man

well perhaps the answer is the Men's becomes unisex and the Women's stays single sex.

Too often I've seen business do this the other way round.

That's really unsafe.

If someone is unwell in an enclosed cubical people aren't alerted to help.

If a woman or child is shoved into an enclosed cubical by an attacker they can't escape and can't be heard.

No thanks, the original way worked best.

It is also saying that in general women don't want uni sex toilets. Whether they are off an open corridor or not.

Please feel free to campaign all you like, but the polling (government sponsored and women's groups) and the consultations have been very clear. Women don't want all toilets converted. They still want female single sex toilets and often they will support additional unisex provisions. But not at the expense of single sex toilets. And I also remember in the past couple of years that secondary students across the UK protested the loss of single sex toilets as an option. Both girls and boys protested in multiple schools.

I have more, but this was the result of the consultation.

www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-lay-new-law-to-halt-the-march-of-gender-neutral-toilets-in-buildings

Trans women usually look like men in drag. I’m sure no man has ever batted an eyelid at sharing the public lavatories with a pantomime dame and will be similarly in phased by trans women. But if a man is sufficiently feminine to ‘pass’ as female then no one on the ladies’ loo will notice.

Im far more excited about reclaiming women’s sports, in part because one of my children is a county player, so I am acutely aware of the threat the self-ID / gender is entry over biology trend presents for female athletes.

Hurrah @Genevieva - what has she said about the ruling?

I'm sure you've all used the disabled loos at one time or another, did you feel unsafe doing so? Why? Disabled people have been using unisex loos for decades without issue, what's the difference?

They’re only 14, but the smiles tell you all you need to know.

Well then trans people can create their own spaces. You know like women had to. And perhaps understand the irony of being fearful of men

This sounds like a great idea imo. All those male trans allies can put their kind inclusive words into action 😁

Why do men feel obliged to stand up to piss? If there is no urinal and all they have available is a lavatory with a seat, they can perfectly well sit down to use it rather than spraying urine all over the surrounding area.

And yet most of the time disabled women have to make do with unisex toilets ...

I mean, you are not wrong, I wish they weren't unisex.

tbf most blokes wouldn't give a fuck who was in a toilet with them, male, female, ambiguous whatever. and why would they? They're blokes. This is a false equivalence

I actually think this would work well, there are often far longer queues for the women's toilets than for the men's at the theatre etc

I agree!

And I can well understand also the frustration those needing the disabled toilets feel when they have to share with parents changing children.

This is just a false equivalence and it is whataboutery. It is like people who then point out 'but what about the businesses with only one toilet'.

As I said, you want only unisex toilets, go for it.

But the majority of women have already told the government and pollsters that they don't want it. You will be dismissing their needs and what they want.

This. I have a trans friend (transitioning male to female) and they feel threatened in male public toilets. But females feel threatened by trans women being in the female toilets.

There are solutions that can make everyone feel safe but they will cost money. Many places already have individual toilets that anyone can use safety. Swimming pools often have individual changing cubicles.

As a parent of a trans adult/child (female to male) I worry, being a trans man doesn’t really put other woman at risk but would a trans man be at risk by using the male toilets?

Everyone has the right to feel safe.

I’m with you, no thanks to losing single sex toilets.

Quite.
Competing needs, but I am not sure it always needs to be disabled people that accommodate them.

I can understand the baby change as there is the same need for space.

But I draw the line at lumping the "solution" for trans people on disabled people too. Our rights matter as well.

Most men and boys I know don't feel safe in men's loos anyway, so I think a general campaign and designs to make men's loos safer (and nicer) is a good idea. It probably needs a bloke movement, like with men's sheds and men's mental health campaigns.

If all toilets are replaced by individual fully enclosed cubicles containing a hand basin the queues are going to be horrendous.

There will be fewer toilets due to space required and each person will take longer to use them.

.

. . . trans women have the added bonus of being naturally physically stronger and therefore more able to defend themselves if there is an idiot man around.

My point is that unisex toilets are demonstrably safe, yet people keep pointing to safety being the reason they don't want them. That's the equivalent I'm talking about.

Communal areas around cubicles are known to be unsafe (whether single sex or unisex), so why do people want that? Sorry, it a simple question, I want to understand why?

Because I don’t want toilets to be divided into low risk and high risk. I just want to go to the loo in a place where there are only other women, like I did 25 years ago and somehow all the men who wanted to be seen as women for whatever reason managed to cope.

I'm a fella.. we don't really care. In fact sometimes the female cleaning staff will come into our toilets when we're going for a pee.

In Thailand the ladyboys there look stunning and can really fool you into thinking they're female..

over here they just look like blokes in makeup and dresses..

Kinda cringe tbh 😂