Labour say transwomen should use the men’s toilet

[Kindersurprising]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trans-women-men-toilets-b8gt6l22c?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHlJe7BiT-kgvjfusJpz2eq_AUSGDRI9eAMe5VNA0iX6U2qOUk-U0wPhPI98-_aem_Vfuvll1ZYKrZUa-vjh4QSA#Echobox=1745317525

Squeak squeak burrow burrow. Is that a ferret reversing?

What about men pretending to be trans men though? It’s a lot easier all of a sudden for male presenting people to enter the women’s loos now. I can’t imagine any woman wants to ask a big burly fella if he is really a trans man?

This is such a feeble argument. Why is it any easier for a man to walk in to a toilets and claim they should be there because they are in fact a biological woman, than it is for a man to walk in there and say they should be there because they have woman feelz?

Exactly. I wonder how many 'transwomen' there will be now that men who have not done anything to transition apart from put on a dress and in some cases, get some fake boobs cant access womens spaces there will be? I suspect there will actually be vanishingly few now that they cant swing their penis around in changing rooms, flash their arses while they stand up and pee and intimidate lesbians into having sex with them. This whole movement was about the thrill of intimidating and upsetting women.

It’s not about women who are transgender.

It’s about these imaginary cis men who were all going to rock up to the ladies loo wearing a dress, pretending to be trans women, and now they can walk into the ladies’ without the dress, pretending to be trans men 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

We have men already pretending to be women and now you are worried about men pretending to be transmen? I don’t really see that happening on the scale of the former as you can always tell.

I don't put men's rights above women's - I care about everyone's safety.
I am willing to speak up for anyone who I feel needs it - not just women.
As for the person who laughed at the fact I am worried for my friends - shame on you.
I will leave you all to it.

Jonathon? Is that you?

Again, they can be removed from the womens toilets, so your gleeful little hope of punishing women with transmen, has failed on that front too.

So you are acknowledging that males pose a risk? Why do you think that allowing men into the women’s toilets remove this risk, rather than increasing the risk to women?

And please don’t say this doesn’t happen. Anyone who travels through Leeds, Manchester or Bradford frequently probably is aware of the same men in the women’s loo that I have previously raised concerns about.

No.

Because fewer people will be willing to confront them. And is it much, much easier in life to be man walking around looking like a man.

Quite. I’m not sure why politicians changing their minds about things has come to be seen as bad. Don't people normally change their ideas and behaviour in response to information/legal changes (I know this is a clarification not a change)/societal change?
I want politicians to be flexible not utterly dogmatic.

A big burly man calling himself a trans man wont be allowed in the ladies. It is in the judgment.

Only men are allowed to voice concerns about being around men. They get very dramatic and put death threats on placards. But when women voice legitimate concerns about being around men we get told to shut the fuck up.

Well at least they won’t have to woman face anymore - also how will men get into women only hospital wards, sports , shortlists now?

oh they can’t - I’d say that’s a win

I do have a genuine concern about musclebound, beardy transwomen now needing to be in women's toilets and changing rooms. On a practical level they aren't the same level of threat to women as transwomen are, but two things bother me.

One, my concerns about someone presenting as male being in female spaces are still relevant. I don't know that someone who looks like a man is actually a transman.

Two, how will we deal with them? Legally they're protected from discrimination and harassment. Just as it's wrong to challenge someone with a blue badge because they "don't look disabled enough" to need one, surely a transman can't be challenged and doesn't need to explain themselves when they use a women's toilet or changing room. I guess we could call the police but it would leave us open to legal action if it turned out they were a transman just exercising their legal right (and now obligation) to use the women's facilities.

This is a real concern because what's to stop a man coming into a women's changing room insisting they are actually a transman? Some businesses will be reluctant to enforce checks on genuine transmen because they can't discriminate against them. This means they can't place additional checks on someone claiming to be a transman that they don't check with people who claim and appear to be female.

I think the recent ruling is necessary and sensible in its requirements on segregation around birth sex but I fear that for as long as there is legal protection for transpeople to not face discrimination or harassment there will always be loopholes the unscrupulous can drive a bus through.

I'm not saying they should lose this legal protection of course, it's just I don't see how trans rights are fully compatible with women's rights.

What about a short androgynous person wearing shorts, tshirt and baseball cap

Yes, we do. Men and transwomen to use men's toilets. Women and transmen to use women's toilets.

No more men in women's toilets.

Transwomen need to lobby for men to stop being a risk to them. Not women's job to do that and it never was.

So now we know your opinion on men using womens toilets. How do you feel about womens prisons, rape crisis centres, domestic violence refuges, hospital wards, swimming pool changing rooms? OK for male bodied people to use them too?

I completely agree with you. But it seems we're on totally the wrong platform if you want to express concern for another group of people.

And again, why is that different to the big burly man in a dress in the women's toilets that nobody dared confront for fear of being called a bigot? (It's also bollocks. I would 100% confront someone clearly male - or at the very least alert security or whoever if I felt unsafe confronting them myself).

"...do we really want transwomen to have to use men's toilets"

Yes, so many times, yes!

Quite simply, they are men. Where you have a single sex service then that means exactly what it says, a service for a single sex.

"This will put transwomen at risk"

What makes you say that? Do you have any examples of that happening in the past?

This makes me sad - do we really want transwomen to have to use men's toilets, and transmen to have to use women's toilets? This will put transwomen at risk - I hate the hysteria that has arisen over this issue.

They are men. Risk from who exactly?

How many transmen "pass" as male?

Why is it safe or socially acceptable to swap the two populations so that the females end up in the unsafe mens toilets?

Why is putting the sub-group of females ( by population physically smaller weaker sex) in with males safe if its unsafe to have the sub-group of males (by population exactly the same physically as other males) in with other males?

And can you answer any of the questions below without hysteria?

So you as a jury member for a criminal trial ( or a civil case for damages) and have to decide if a man was assaulted in an A&E.

Judge tell you that assault is the
•act of unwanted physical contact to another person or
• the threat of unwanted physical contact to another person or
• attempt to do so.

A man came into A&E and told the admission/nursing staff member he want a man doctor and another man chaperone for any medical provision including any examinations

There are 4 doctors on staff :
A) female who classes herself as a woman
B) female who classes herself as a transman
C) male who classes himself as a man
D) male who classes himself as a transwoman.

The there are 4 chaperones on staff :
E) female who classes herself as a woman
F) female who classes herself as a transman
G) male who classes himself as a man
H) male who classes himself as a transwoman.

Its a such a quiet night that all 8 individuals are having a teabreak together when the admissions staff member comes in and says one man doctor and one man chaperone is needed as the man said he wanted a man doctor and a man chaperone.

Question 1
Would you agree or disagree that the individual doctor (A, B, C, D) is carrying out an assault if they carried out the exam?
A) female who classes herself as a woman
B) female who classes herself as a transman
C) male who classes himself as a man
D) male who classes himself as a transwoman.

Question 2
Would you agree or disagree that individual chaperones (E, F, G, H) if they act as chaperones for a doctor (A, B, C, D) are witnessing an assault or are participating in an assault?
E) female who classes herself as a woman
F) female who classes herself as a transman
G) male who classes himself as a man
H) male who classes himself as a transwoman.

Question 3
How about the other doctors if they see the other doctors carry out the exam should they have a duty to speak out or stop the other doctor?
.
Question 4
How about the other doctors if they see the chaperones chaperone should they have a duty to speak out or stop the chaperone?
Question 5
How about the other chaperones if they see the doctor carry out the exam should they have a duty to speak out or stop the doctor?
.
Question 6
How about the other chaperones if they see the other chaperones chaperone should they have a duty to speak out or stop the chaperone?

Whats your a vote in the jury room?

No one here is a winner.
Our complete lack of humanity in society at the moment is disgraceful.

I fear for all the trans women, non conforming women, and androgynous presenting people in society today.