Labour say transwomen should use the men’s toilet

[Kindersurprising]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/trans-women-men-toilets-b8gt6l22c?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMQABHlJe7BiT-kgvjfusJpz2eq_AUSGDRI9eAMe5VNA0iX6U2qOUk-U0wPhPI98-_aem_Vfuvll1ZYKrZUa-vjh4QSA#Echobox=1745317525

Squeak squeak burrow burrow. Is that a ferret reversing?

Just change all men's toilets to unisex. Problem solved.

Are you on glue?

FWIW, I have a roman nose and a well-defined jaw. I also no breasts (double mastectomy due to cancer) and for a time, a grade one (hair cut shortly before my hair fell out from chemo, and then I was bald for six months. I mostly wore sweatshirts, trousers and converse. Not once did anyone ever confuse me as being a man.

Women walk differently to men. Women hold themselves different to men. No amount of testosterone will change this. I live in central London. I regularly see plenty of transpeople. Much like spotting a fake designer handbag, I can always tell. And it is not just me. Women are better at telling the sex because we've had to learn to do so.

It's an interesting idea, only men also deserve privacy and dignity, and many if not most do not want to share with women.

Digestive- the biscuit that can't make its mind up and thinks its interesting to be inbetweeny. Sometimes wants cheese, sometimes Hundreds and Thousands.

Always tedious.

No I mean they'd be sharing with transwomen/men. If we keep women's toilets there is not a chance a woman would choose unisex.

But now we have reclaimed the word ‘woman’, and that makes it possible to discuss and fight for women’s rights, including the things you mention.

I'm sorry that there are kids caught up in this mess. For that, I blame the trans lobby for telling them that they could be something which they cannot, and in some cases, making them life-long (or rather, somewhat shortened) medical patients. Most of them will have mothers who don’t believe, but are nevertheless loving and supporting their children, and often fighting hard to defend them against gender identity in whatever way they can.

Careful now, that’s enough of that. Mention of baked goods is verboten on these types of threads….
🍪

No, it won't. The law changed in October 2024.

The Building Regs (Building Regulations 2010) were updated last year. What they now say is that any new building, or a building where work is being done that requires Building Regs approval, that is not just a private residence, has to comply with these new rules.

What the new rules say is that there must be separate toilets for men and women.

Gender neutral toilets can still be provided, but only in addition to single sex provision and where space allows - and all toilets need clear signage to meet the regulations.

There are some exceptions for smaller venues, for example where there is only space for one toilet, eg at a hairdressers, café or small restaurant etc.
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This doesn't apply to places like schools or prison cells as there are separate rules that apply there.

I really struggle to understand why people STILL don’t get this concept - Gender identity and sexual preference are completely different things!! A 4 year old hasn’t gone through puberty yet - they don’t know who they are attracted to but they DO have a strong sense of what gender they are. I have a 4 yo DD - I have actively avoided all gender stereotyped clothes, toys, media, everything, because I don’t want to put her in a box. Since the age of about 3 she’s known she’s a girl, she has a strong sense of her identity- and that doesn’t mean she loves playing with dolls and wearing pink, she’s just comfortable in her body and her gender. It’s one of the few things she is completely sure about. I know of and have read a lot about trans kids a similar age to her and a little older and they strongly feel that their brain does not match their body. It’s a primal thing. I’m not suggesting medical intervention for a 4-year-old. You’ve got another 6 years or so to observe their behaviour, its consistency and the child’s level of distress. Parents of these children say they are miserable, self-harm by trying to cut their penises off, or the other way round, put socks down their pants to look as if they have a penis! Constantly want to dress very stereotypically like the opposite gender. If this behaviour last for 8 years and they’ve said the only thing in the world that would make me happy is to be a boy/girl, or I’ll kill myself if I start growing boobs (I know of a girl who said this) a thousand times what parent would deny their child the opportunity to transition after years and years of misery?

I’m a gay woman and have many gay friends, male and female - none of them ever thought they were the opposite gender when they were children. Being gay has got nothing to do with your gender. Yes some men are camp, some women are butch but that’s not the same as wanting to BE a girl or wanting to be a man. God, even my 4 yo knows this!

Similarly, what parent would deny their anorexic child the right to starve themselves to the weight they feel they need to be?

Sexual assault by penetration can be committed by a woman. Women can also be a threat in SSS. Just saying.

Well I hope for your sake someone who isn’t as well versed in spotting trans people doesn’t take it upon themselves to decide that your lack of breasts and well defined jaw doesn’t permit you entry to any particular space.

Men commit 99% of sexual assaults.

Er, good pisstake?

Don't be lame

And yet, the idea that if my mother/my daughter/my female friends need intimate care and ask for a woman, they won’t find a man with his hand between their legs seems quite important. But maybe those issues aren’t important to you

How does allowing men in womens single sex spaces reduce the risk of a woman commiting assault in a women's SSS

I have several friends who are women and 6 feet tall. None of them have ever been mistaken for a man.

I have however been mistaken for a man in ladies toilets and elsewhere on more than one occasion.

I've said this on Mumsnet multiple times. Last time I was mistaken for a man in a ladies loo, a lady said to me, excuse me this is the ladies. I looked up in order to say to her, I am a lady but as soon as she saw my face she said 'oh sorry love'. I didn't need to say a single word.

That was it. There was no bullying, she didn't eject me. I'm not very feminine looking, if you put me in one of those sex changing photo filters, I look the same.

However, if you take a single second to actually look at me, it's obviously i am a woman from my height, facial bone structure, the way I walk etc. That's why the women in the toilets could correct herself so very quickly, because in the vast vast majority of cases we can all tell.

The incidences of women being bullied out of toilets must be vanishingly rare indeed, and even if that does happen very very rarely it is a small price to pay to stop women being abused by men in their safe spaces.

So removing men wouldn’t reduce the chances to 0.

What percentage of sexual assaults are committed by trans women?

Human bites are far more dangerous than dog bites, but I’ve never been even slightly worried that anyone might bite me.
Because it’s vanishingly unlikely to happen.

If you aren’t the one being bullied out of a toilet for your appearance, then you don’t get to say it’s a small price to pay.

There’s also the fact that there’s far less trans men then trans women. Can’t remember the exact number but it’s certainly not 50/50. I.e. most people who identify as trans are men transitioning to women.

Actually we can. That's exactly what the SC ruling says. Majority wins.
The tiny number of tall women with strong jaws and no breasts who are bullied out of toilets dont get to decide to throw open toilets to men on our behalf.🙄

But here’s the thing, I don’t believe at 4 children do have a sense of their sex. They know if they are a boy or a girl but they don’t know what that means. Their bodies are very very similar at that age. Children don’t really understand the differences between their genitalia. So I really don’t see how they can be unhappy in their bodies. What they can be unhappy with is how they are treated. Boys and girls are treated differently no matter how we try not to. I can understand if a boy feels more feminine he can make a connection that he would prefer to be treated as a girl is and he would therefore make a leap that it is his body that is the problem.
we need to teach these kids that their body is their body but they can be whatever they want to be and dress however they please but they can’t change their sex.

I honestly fear something like this happening. I got innocently mistaken for a trans woman in a gay club back in the 90s. I was very feminine but muscular/athletic girl, big nose and hands (i naturally have a high androgen level). It wasn't an unpleasant experience on that occasion, but if I looked like that now I would probably be quite worried.

And by the way, there are LOADS of trans women out there who easily 'pass' as women, you really wouldn't know the difference. You've probably sat next to them on the bus and never noticed.