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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find DS4 so bloody annoying

483 replies

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 08:19

I feel rotten as he’s only a little kid but he’s such hard work. Here are some examples which I’m not looking for advice on per se, its more to give an idea what life with him is like.

  • licking people. He’s started trying to lick my face and his sisters face. We hate it. Tell him to stop and laughs and tries to do it more. Move him away he moves back.
  • whines for things all the time, toys, ice cream,
  • has taken to shouting. Not saying anything or for any reason like fear or pain just suddenly lets loose with a massive bellow AHHHH. Then stops.

there’s a lot more. He also often doesn’t listen to anything we/I say. Some more examples are

  • Pelting off when we were at a park and ignoring me shouting to come back. I ran after him and couldn’t find him for ages. Eventually find him by a pond.
  • on holiday we were going down a steep flight of steps with no guard on one side. The wall was on the other. I was holding a baby so couldn’t supervise (he suddenly took off) people above were screaming at me to get him to come back and I’m yelling come back DS but he just … blanks me. It’s like no one’s spoken. This happens a LOT but these were two very dangerous occasions.

its a horrible thing to admit but I just wish I didn’t have him. I hate spending time with him as he’s either annoying, completely not listening (blanking me) or being downright nasty to me and sometimes he is.

I like being a parent to my other child but not him and keep wondering wtf is wrong with me. I’m sure a lot of stuff is him trying to make a connection but when you try more positive ways it doesn’t work.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Groundhogday2025 · 22/04/2025 09:42

Foreheadthing · 22/04/2025 09:20

Hi OP. I just wanted to come on and give you a big hug, tell you that it can be fucking shit sometimes being a parent, it's hard, and sometimes no matter what you do or try, it doesn't go right and it's not your fault.
We can try and do absolutely everything possible to be the best parent possible and our kids can still be dicks. Especially at that age.
I have a DD5 that I struggled similarly with when younger. She was the golden child at nursery, and is at school too, and can be so well behaved. But she struggles to listen, gets easily distracted and this leads to the not listening, getting told off, and I really believe this affects her a lot. So then there comes the emotions - shouting, screaming, she really struggles to regulate herself. Only at home though or with me, never at school.
I just wondered if you considered ADHD in your child? Does he struggle with transitions? My DD is going to be assessed. He sounds similar with some things. I bet he thrives from the routine at nursery and that's possibly why he's fine there.

Anyway, sending a huge hug and it's ok to feel how you feel. Parenting doesn't come with a manual and it sounds like you're doing your best. The fact you feel guilty for feeling this way shows you are a good mum too.
I always felt like nobody else ever really "gets it" and the stuff that works for other kids never worked for mine. Your experience is valid.

Agree with all this. Children do not come with an instruction manual. All those parenting books may work for some children, but ultimately they are all just trying to be instruction manuals. Which is great if you have a “standard model” child.

You aren’t a shit mum. You are wanting to correct his behaviour and create a bond to the point where it’s destroying you. A shit mother wouldn’t care enough, they’d let their child bang on the doors of toilet cubicles and happily let their children piss everyone around them off.

From what you’ve said I would also suspect some underlying explanation like neurodivergence (ADHD possibly). If it gets worse when his diet is poorer that also points to ADHD. And the thing to remember is ADHD presents so differently between individuals that I really wouldn’t rule it out just because he doesn’t present highly on some traits.

Anyway. Hugs to you. You sound so unhappy. I do think things will get better when he’s older and if you do have more of an explanation for this behaviour. This is a bloody tough stage and I wish I could wave a magic wand for you, or at least give you a crystal ball to show you that the future won’t always seem so dark.

Heronwatcher · 22/04/2025 09:43

No and I don’t plan to. But I am educated, I can and do read, I have tried various strategies and none of them really connect us very well. All I can do is try but relationships are two way. I can offer but ultimately if DS doesn’t respond then that ends there.

Sorry but this is wrong. You should be chomping at the bit to get any support you can get in the position you’re in. Parenting courses are often completely free and even if it doesn’t completely work, why wouldn’t you at least try it?

And as for “two way” realationships, that’s just not how it works with a 4 yr old. Their brains are still developing, they have little to no empathy and are more or less governed by impulse. They are not going to think “oh I’ll deliberately behave badly to wind mum up”. Of course he wants a relationship with you, he loves you and you’re his mum! You’re both just struggling to relate to each other but you are the parent and you have to be the bigger person- which might mean seeking outside help. And you have to keep trying, you can’t simply say “if DS doesn’t respond it ends there”, your job is to go back to basics and try something else/ go back to GP/ speak to an expert.

MyOpalCat · 22/04/2025 09:44

If he runs off then Back pack reins or wrist strap but if it's occaional well that does happen and you have to anticipate or get a tone they repond to.

Aslo have you had his hearing checked - I know DS often felt like he wasn't listening but he had intermittent glue ear. Also boys that age do need a lot of exercise just being able to run around.

One of the things I never appreciated about having my second child is that I would sometimes feel hostility towards my first as a result
I had a close age gap but did both times feel like my older one were older than they were rather than still really young kids. That passed quickly for me - but I wonder if that's lingered for the OP - her 4 year old son doesn't sound out normal behvaior to me yet.

The licking slightly odd - could be sensory seeking behavior or just want some reaction from mum behavior.

I think you need to get checked for pnd - and I think you need some in person parenting classes - not least so you can talk to other parents and feel less alone. It's possible that you are seeing some ND or SEN in him and everyone else isn't yet and that may well become more obvious to others as he ages- but if you are only one he's not behavioing for than it's more likely a reponse to you.

Two of my three are ND - so were harder to parent in some ways but DH and I just got on with solving the next issue - and with some thing it took years and years for them to learn - they all late teens now but they all did.

I also wonder how much experience you have with 4 year old boys - how much do you see them around - so how able are you to judge his behavior as normal because it does read as if your expectations are of an older child but maybe they're not as he is a bit behind and needs more support.

scoobysnaxx · 22/04/2025 09:44

@IButtleSiryou are so fucking rude and condescending.

@hoppingandhopyou really really need to reframe this, this isn’t okay:

No and I don’t plan to. But I am educated, I can and do read, I have tried various strategies and none of them really connect us very well. All I can do is try but relationships are two way. I can offer but ultimately if DS doesn’t respond then that ends there.

your relationship with your son doesn’t just end there. You are his MOTHER! He is 4!! You can’t expect him to respond as an adult! All behaviour is communication.

are you depressed? You seriously need to speak to a health visitor about how to manage this because it sounds like you’re exasperated yes but also giving up on a child which isn’t okay. Your son can tell you don’t like him. He doesn’t have the language and communication skills to tell you that. As a mum you need to find a way to connect with him and manage his behaviour, you don’t just get to through your hands up and say well he doesn’t like me so that’s that.

if you care at all about the impact on your son you will seek help and advice. Not doing that, if you really have tried everything else, is grossly unfair and damaging to your son.

CalmBalonz · 22/04/2025 09:45

How old is he?

Cinnamonrollsforbreakfast · 22/04/2025 09:46

Sounds like you are feeling really upset by this. Could you have a few counselling sessions? Maybe if you felt that your feelings were being looked after then you would have more room to look after your child’s.

Mumofoneandone · 22/04/2025 09:46

I really feel for you, as it's so hard going through this.
The only book I've read that really resonated and helps me with my youngsters is there's still no such thing as naughty - Kate Silverstone. The book for earlier years is there's no such thing as naughty.
Raising boys by Steve Biddulph is also helpful.....
Good luck

CalmBalonz · 22/04/2025 09:46

I think you need to have a long talk with your husband and he needs to get his finger out of his arse and help you 50/50. x

MyOpalCat · 22/04/2025 09:47

The diet thing - have you kept a diary - I know DD1 inattentive ADHD reacted to certain dyes not the usual one - as did one of my second cousins in 80/90 one now banned.

There is research that suggests we attribute poor behavior to sugar when it'a actaually nothing to do with it and it's more the environement.

So a food diary to see any links could help.

Jacopo · 22/04/2025 09:48

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 09:12

@IButtleSir no and I don’t plan to. But I am educated, I can and do read, I have tried various strategies and none of them really connect us very well. All I can do is try but relationships are two way. I can offer but ultimately if DS doesn’t respond then that ends there.

@Seventree he doesn’t habitually run off, that’s occasions in nine months. On both he was holding my hand and suddenly pulled free. But I don’t really want to focus on the minutiae of these occasions. I’m sure there are some things I should do differently .The point is though that he often doesn’t respond at all when I speak to him, lights off, no one’s home sort of thing.

You’ve mentioned several times that he doesn’t listen to you. Have you had his hearing tested? He might just need grommets.

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 09:48

We are together @PinkyFlamingo

I am really grateful for these posts. It isn’t like we’ve always got this awful atmosphere with misbehaving and nastiness and shouting. That’s the hard thing really. He’ll be fine then suddenly isn’t I guess. We’ve definitely had a hard holiday.

He is praised, he is read to, spent time with and I try … I just wish it wasn’t an effort and that I knew I could speak to him and he’d respond.

OP posts:
lydialucy · 22/04/2025 09:48

Sounds difficult for you all.
How does he behave at school or nursery or with other family members?

Upperroom · 22/04/2025 09:50

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 08:43

Well yes but if they don’t listen to a clear ‘hold my hand’ then it’s a bit hard to know what to do. Have them on reins until they are 5, 6, 7? Not leave the house? Obviously I’m being facetious but it’s how it is.

Another example; we’re waiting for the toilet and someone’s in it. DS tried the door and obviously it’s locked. I say clearly ‘someone is in there.’ He won’t stop banging on the door. I have to literally pretty much rugby tackle him down to stop him and he’s still giggling and trying to open the door. The look I got.

But it’s best I don’t post any more. I’ve had a really hard few days and I wanted to vent. I do make a real effort and it hurts that we have such a poor relationship and communication

Sounds so tough op - have you looked into adhd?

MargotB · 22/04/2025 09:50

@hoppingandhop - you posted this earlier ..............

All I can do is try but relationships are two way. I can offer but ultimately if DS doesn’t respond then that ends there.

What do you mean by 'it ends there'?

MrsSkylerWhite · 22/04/2025 09:52

I expect he’s becoming more hostile towards you because he feels your negativity.

At 2, most of this is in the realms of normal and he will probably grow out of it naturally.

CalmBalonz · 22/04/2025 09:52

.

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 09:52

What I mean is that if I reach out and am rebutted then the effort to reach out hasn’t been successful.

OP posts:
IWetMyPlants · 22/04/2025 09:52

Do you think there maybe an underlying issue with him? NOT saying he has but my son was a pain in the arse still is at 13 but he was diagnosed with ADHD at 4 because he was just so different to other kids. Never walked anywhere he ran, had sensory issues and literally had no emotion whatsoever! It's hard I know x

MyOpalCat · 22/04/2025 09:54

Have you had his hearing tested?

It was really hard with DS - intermittent glue ear - as he just pas the hearing test and then just failing. By 6 it was gone.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/glue-ear/

It's really common - apparently I had it as a child as well - (though with both DS and me there was also underlying language processing issues as well).

nhs.uk

Glue ear

Find out what glue ear is, what causes it, what a GP can do to help, and how it's treated.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/glue-ear

MaverickDanger · 22/04/2025 09:54

I really really feel you. Four is hard anyway, and then add in a new sibling into the mix. I’m in the thick of it too. We both have strong autism and ADHD tendencies in our families and, while we aren’t currently exploring a diagnosis yet, we are following a lot of the PDA techniques as we feel it can’t hurt.

DS is hugely bright, very active & highly sensitive, which is an exhausting combination. Add in to that my own sensitivities and sleep deprivation, my reactions aren’t always as I would want.

Things that have worked for us:

Keeping a routine and using a chart and timer to help with transitions.

Reducing requests (instead of asking what he wants for breakfast, I just state I’m having Weetabix and he normally then says what he wants).

Making sure we have 1:1 time doing something he enjoys and having zero expectations, except he needs to be safe. We also have a bath together regularly which helps with bedtime as it’s spending time together.

Making time for myself to ensure I’m as regulated as I can be, which helps me pick my battles and my reactions.

Happy to you to DM me because sometimes it’s just solidarity that you need.

DriveMeCrazyRoadRage · 22/04/2025 09:54

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 08:33

I don’t know to both @Dollshousedolly but to be honest I’m not exactly looking for advice here as I’m pretty sure I’ve tried all the obvious and not so obvious things. What is increasingly happening is that I’m becoming more and more sort of detached from him. I’m losing any relationship we had and I can’t control him.

My deepest and sickest feeling is that if I could turn back time and only have the one child I would, in a heartbeat.

Oh gosh OP, how horrible for you both.

It's good that you've acknowledged how you feel. Now you definitely need to get some support.

I would suggest you reach out to social services and explain the situation and ask for help. You could also try speaking to your local CAMHS service and ask their advice on where to get support with building a bond and an attachment.

You need professional help to build an attachment with your son. You know that. I know it's hard to admit in real life what you have admitted here on Mumsnet, but the sooner you do so, to a professional, the sooner you can get some real support.

Please reach out to social services TODAY

BusMumsHoliday · 22/04/2025 09:55

I'm not trying to diagnose but he sounds a lot like my DS5 on his bad days, and he is autistic (and I think ADHD is quite likely). I have a great relationship with him and like being with him a lot, but he is a much more challenging child to parent than my younger DD is.

I would ask nursery how they feel about his attention skills and ability to follow instructions in a group setting. They may have noticed things but not have raised it.

I find a mixture of setting very clear expectations and plans before activities, speaking to him without distractions, checking I have his attention and using his name before I give instructions (and making him repeat them back to me), helps a bit. I also try to agree expectations E.g "if we walk this way, we should hold hands to be safe, yes? Otherwise, I don't think we should do it." This might sound like I'm not being stern enough, but of course, I impose rules when I need to. Also, only one person speaks to him at a time - my son also plays up more when it's me and his dad with him, and my instinct is that it's the increased complexity of the social interaction that gets him anxious, fizzy, and reduces his ability to just bloody listen to me...

BertieBotts · 22/04/2025 09:55

I find 4 a very wearing age. I have three children 16, 6, 3 and it's been tough with all of them. 3yo is 4 in August and not quite in the frustrating stage yet but getting there.

I think for me it's two things - my eldest two both have ADHD, and it makes them very intense, but 4 is too young for it to have been identified in either of them so I was just sort of stuck windmilling against this little stubborn troll/emotional tornado. Better with DS2 (as in, my second son) because I had some idea plus had been there before, but still trying.

But also I think I am very well suited to parenting the toddler years (roughly 18 months - 3.5) and the 4-7 ish age is a very different stage and I struggle with it.

I don't know if everyone would like him, but I've been finding the reels by iam.mrluke helpful in rekindling some appreciation for this age, his videos where he play acts the ~5yos in his class are very sweet and I find that I can sort of adopt his "voice" in responding to my 6yo and it helps avoid some of my frustrated/irritated responses, which just escalate things rather than help.

4 is different because - they feel so much older, and at times they can be very sensible and grown up so you can get this sense that they "should know" things by now e.g. rules or expectations, but they are still very little. When I was struggling with DS1 many years ago someone on MN said "4yos are still babies really" and I've never forgotten it. It seemed incredible to call them babies when I compared him to my friends' younger children, and I think it's even more stark when you have two close together in age so you can see a literal baby as a comparison. But compared with much older children, they really are at a very young stage of development still.

Connection is only part of the story - I think this can be a harmful narrative because some resources suggest if you have enough of a connection, then they will be perfectly behaved at all times so if you are finding them difficult, it's your fault for not being connected enough - which is unhelpful. Obviously if they don't feel connected and listened to, that's not good, but they can also just act like butts for absolutely no good reason! That's four!

What I do find helpful is to dial back expectations a little bit and be proactive with physical needs - regular small meals and snacks, keep reminding them to go to the toilet, have a "try for a poo for 5 mins" planned into your bedtime routine. Not too much screen time, and try to be mindful/observant of what effect different kinds of screen time have - certain youtube channels drive my kids absolutely hyper and have been banned. In fact, in my house it's better if they only watch iPlayer or something like Netflix (and again, go through and ban annoying programmes). Time limits as well, especially if they are playing computer games. You'll probably need to experiment if this is an issue for you.

Also predictable structure throughout the day, use a visual schedule/timetable if you like, this seems to work well. Breaking the day into sort of "buckets" helps me with this, and trying to get everyone outside for some fresh air and exercise. If I really, really can't do this then something physical inside helps a lot. DH is king of dance parties. I tend to set up obstacle courses or put a single duvet down on the floor and roll them up in it then pretend they are a "sausage roll" with much pretend chopping, seasoning and eating which they find hilarious and can help a lot.

I think the thing with 4 is that you have to be much more explicitly in command, often against what they want to do, and I struggle with that, whereas toddlers will go with the flow a lot more, and older children can have more autonomy without it being a disaster. Does that ring true to you?

Best book I have read at this age is "When Your Kids Push Your Buttons" by Bonnie Harris, which is only 99p on kindle.

Other things which have been useful:

Janet Lansbury - blog/podcast, on holding boundaries without threat/punishment and some stuff about emotions and being a confident leader.

Occuplaytional Therapist - big mix of sensory stuff and unconventional parenting takes, parent emotional regulation, some developmental stuff.

ABCs of Everyday Parenting course (free, on Coursera) - positive reinforcement, breaking behaviour expectations down into smaller steps to make them more achievable.

TheOTButterfly - sensory info, which can help keep them in a better mood

Big Baffling Behaviours by Robyn Gobbel - explains regulation using animal metaphors. Book is better than podcast IMO. Helpful for "WTF do I do in the moment when they are crazy??"

Dr. Becky - I find her mixed, but I like her approach of giving 1 thing to do in the moment and 1 thing to do outside of the moment.

theteachermomma - She is a US Kindergarten teacher, and has good insights about this age (~4-7) and tends to pick up on common struggles parents make with moving from parenting more appropriate to younger children into this stage.

Bubblybits · 22/04/2025 09:55

Another example; we’re waiting for the toilet and someone’s in it. DS tried the door and obviously it’s locked. I say clearly ‘someone is in there.’ He won’t stop banging on the door. I have to literally pretty much rugby tackle him down to stop him and he’s still giggling and trying to open the door. The look I got.

You’re not being clear enough IMO. He doesn’t need to hear that there’s someone in there. That makes it into a game. “No, don’t touch the door.” Super clear, no additional, unnecessary information. Keep repeating. Do not get side tracked by questions. Just firm NO and a hard hold on him. He’s only 4, he needs loving boundaries.

Crazybaby123 · 22/04/2025 09:56

Where did you holiday? I remember we booked one UK holiday to a seaside town with a 5 and 2 year old and left the next day, it was so stressful and we realised it after 24 hours in the beautiful but boutique hotel.
Holidays are sooo hard with kids. We then only went on holidays that offered creche and childrens clubs for a good number of years. Oue son was soo energetic that I could not do a holiday that didn't offer these things. Recommend only booking breaks away that offer the creche and day clubs for the kids, otherwise all you are doing is taking your every day stress and adding a strange environment, a worse diet, taking away all home comforts and making your life harder, so not a holiday!!