To find DS4 so bloody annoying

[hoppingandhop]

I feel rotten as he’s only a little kid but he’s such hard work. Here are some examples which I’m not looking for advice on per se, its more to give an idea what life with him is like.

• licking people. He’s started trying to lick my face and his sisters face. We hate it. Tell him to stop and laughs and tries to do it more. Move him away he moves back.
• whines for things all the time, toys, ice cream,
• has taken to shouting. Not saying anything or for any reason like fear or pain just suddenly lets loose with a massive bellow AHHHH. Then stops.

there’s a lot more. He also often doesn’t listen to anything we/I say. Some more examples are

• Pelting off when we were at a park and ignoring me shouting to come back. I ran after him and couldn’t find him for ages. Eventually find him by a pond.
• on holiday we were going down a steep flight of steps with no guard on one side. The wall was on the other. I was holding a baby so couldn’t supervise (he suddenly took off) people above were screaming at me to get him to come back and I’m yelling come back DS but he just … blanks me. It’s like no one’s spoken. This happens a LOT but these were two very dangerous occasions.

its a horrible thing to admit but I just wish I didn’t have him. I hate spending time with him as he’s either annoying, completely not listening (blanking me) or being downright nasty to me and sometimes he is.

I like being a parent to my other child but not him and keep wondering wtf is wrong with me. I’m sure a lot of stuff is him trying to make a connection but when you try more positive ways it doesn’t work.

Hi OP, just wanted to offer a handheld because this sounds really exhausting and upsetting for you. I've had days where I feel similar but a bad day is usually followed by a good day so I can imagine how hard this must be when it's bad day after bad. Ignore the posters who are just sticking the boot in and making you feel bad. Parenting is hard fot most people but everyone's situations are different and those who are acting as if it's all your fault or giving you common sense simplistic answers dont know your child or the realities of your day to day life. I have found a few people extremely helpful with parenting, mostly through Instagram which I know sounds trite and like they are all unqualified influencers but they are actually psychologists and other experts who have really helped me. Feel free to DM me if you'd like their details. Most of them have loads of free resources! And they may be able help you decipher it there are additional needs at play. Keep your chin up x

He does sound annoying but LOADS of 4yo are annoying. Most of them become less annoying as they get so don’t see your entire future as having someone lick you and bang on doors. Some kids are quieter and less impulsive so easier to live with but you have to live with the child you have, not a fictional one.

It sounds like you see him as older than he is - probably due to him being massive and mature next to the baby. In reality he is only a little pre-school kid and older siblings sometimes regress and become babyish when mum is looking after a baby all day. Don’t have higher expectations than is appropriate at this stage.

He isn’t capable of not wanting a relationship with his mum. Would it even occur to you to say your relationship with his younger sibling needs to be two way? Do you get annoyed with her for her baby behaviour and blame her for not contributing to your relationship? You are talking about him like he’s a 20yo man who cba to visit his mum and forgets your birthday (and when he does show up you criticise him) and not a little boy trying to get you to engage. You need to really, really up your game in terms of interaction with him. Maybe you can do something active together every week such as swimming or climbing while his dad has the baby but also involve him in chores and spend time doing nice things at home more than you do now. You probably already do but it’s like trying to recall train a greyhound - you do what you do with a lab but x1000 - you don’t say “but my mums lab was much better than this with half as much training” - you say “my greyhound needs more than some other dogs” and then you get on with it. The worst thing you can do is try to avoid him.

Some people, especially kids, are much more sensitive to diet than others. Having a high quality diet and good gut health on top of a really reliable and safe daily routine with predictable boundaries can do wonders for behaviour.

This OP is asking for support and everyone is just giving her shit. Can you honestly say that every child behaves like the OP is describing? Read her posts again and give her the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming you would do so much better in the same situation. My kids were annoying at that age for sure but there were also lots of kisses and cuddles and sweet moments. It was not like the OP describes. So yes I would say it is a unique problem and not the same as every other child.

I would ask nursery how they feel about his attention skills and ability to follow instructions in a group setting. They may have noticed things but not have raised it.

Thsi is good idea.

I found I had to be short direct and very clear with older two with instructions with frequent reminds about what they were supposed to be doing. I think that was less obvious in group settings with DD1 as she'd copy other kids.

I found very much the opposite, my kids where great from 3-8 then when they hit pre-teen (yes 8-12 IS the pre-teen/pre-pubity window) they start to get grumpy, boring and think they know better than you making every a struggle.

I’m sorry you feel like this, kids are hard and this age (in my experience) is quite difficult.

I know this sounds stupid but try and be affectionate with him, remember when he was a baby and try and encourage those feelings again.

I know it sounds silly but it can sometimes help to put yourself in a different mindset, because right now you’re probably going round in circles with his negative behaviour.

Very good point. You are expecting him to extrapolate “it’s rude to bang in the door when someone is using the loo” from “someone is in there”. It’s so obvious to an adult that “stop doing that” is what you meant but it’s not obvious at all to him. It makes him appear really naughty when he’s really just not learned what’s acceptable yet because he’s tiny.

I think all the people saying that's all completely normal behaviour are being a bit harsh on you. I've had 4 children and none of them would have behaved like that.

I'd definitely try your health visitor (or if he's at school, try the school nurse). It might be that you're worn down with it all and finding it hard to put proper consequences in place that you can stick to, or it might be he needs a bit of extra help understanding what's expected of him. But voicing it all to someone much more supportive than a mumsnet thread could really be helpful x

Lots of people saying DS is 4. He’s 2, yes, OP?

We did self catering butlins at this age - for years till they were older.

We came home exhausted but the kids loved it - so much to do on tap - some of which we could sit and watch them do - then they were straight back into school next week - worked well.

We had many people be snooty with us about it - but think we were adapting to the kids we got.

Yes, he is 2 you’re right.

@hoppingandhop my DC was very similar at that age, literally none of the parenting techniques that worked beautifully with my DC1 worked on their younger sibling at all. They were eventually diagnosed ASD & ADHD in secondary school with a side helping of pathological demand avoidance. At the age of 4 though, there were no indications of neurodiversity apart from a lack of awareness of danger and being 'naughty' - I faced the judgement of other parents who thought I was just a crap mum unable to discipline.
Unless you parent a child with PDA or ODD, then you really cannot understand that all the things you read in parenting books are just bollocks when you are dealing with these specific neurodiversities.
I would read up on low demand parenting, as I suspect this may be in play. Please be kind to yourself, I have been there and I am sometimes still there - it doesn't make me a shit mum, it makes me human.

From the title and about the 4th post, I think he’s 4.5 (but she has 2 kids).

I'm sorry you feel this way OP, 4 is a tricky age but it will get better.
I think you have to recognise however what you're asking of your little boy. He will be picking up on your feelings towards him and you're basically asking him to be nice and respectful to someone that obviously doesn't like him. Would you be nice to an adult who doesn't like you? Probably not. Also, you keep saying that 'a relationship is a 2 way street' that's true, in more grown up and adult relationships but not at 4. You're his mother, not his mate or his gf. You have to love and nurture him and take care of him no matter how he behaves.

Sounds like a tough time all round @hoppingandhop

Does anyone around you talk to you unkindly? Just wondering if your child has picked this up from another adult.

Is your youngest a girl? Sometimes girls are faster to meet milestones. My friend jokes that she thought her boy was delayed (he wasn't, her daughter was just faster)

If you've got no reserves, you are going to react in anger and frustration. That's ok, if you know this you can plan for it.

Children are designed to elicit attention and resources from parents to stay alive. He's pressing buttons because they work, his behaviour gets attention. You are going to have to start marking and encouraging other behaviours.

Is there anything in your son or relationship that is pulling on an uncomfortable thread from your own childhood? You might have to confront this with a councillor. You might want to talk to a councillor anyway, it's enormously freeing to voice your feelings without being judged. Don't feel too bad about this stuff, parenting can be both delightful and awful - often at the same time!

He sounds like a four year old. Not an easy four year old but a four year old. You can't change him, but you can knock the sharp edges off. And you sound like a parent stretched thinly.

Hi @hoppingandhop I totally relate to this and really wanted to come on and give you some hope. My boy is the same age and displays similar behaviors. I found it quite isolating tbh as only parents with similar kids could relate and just knowing I wasn’t alone was such a relief. I have 2 like you, and my daughter is completely different and responds really well to the usual parenting strategies.

What helped us massively was following Dr Becky Kennedy who wrote good inside and has an app you can subscribe to. You don’t really need the app if you listen to her podcast and read the book, you’ll get the basic concepts and suggestions of what to do there. We did subscribe for a year after a horrendous holiday last year and needing something to just help us deal with this! Long story short what helped us was putting in some time focusing on connection with the little man. She has very clear strategies on what to do and how to do it (along with scripts). We still have struggles from time to time but overall there has been a big improvement! It possibly sounds a bit vague but have a look at her stuff if you’re interested, there’s a lot of free content out there and her Instagram page is really good. And big hand hold because I get it. You’re not a bad parent, you’re just honest and you need support x

I feel for you OP and you will get loads of shitty judgment from people on here jut to make you feel worse.
I had PND with DD and struggled to bond with her until she was around 1 but when I had DS when she was 4 it threw me right back BUT not with regards to DS but DD only - which I obviously felt awful about. I just found her really really annoying but at the same time felt awful she was no longer an only child. To make things worse SIL had a baby around the same time as me so DD went from being the only (slightly worshipped) child in DHs whole family to being 1 of 3
DD was actually pretty well behaved but she is a bit hyper and I found her very hard to deal with while also coping with a new born and I am sure I made mistakes.
One thing I did realise was that as far as she was concerned there was no such thing as bad attention, so ANY attention was welcome even if that was being told off.
Going from 1 to 2 is hard OP so give yourself a break.
My DC are 20 and 16 now and to be honest I think DD would ahve been happier as an only child but I can't do much about that now and I have great relationships with both of them

Have them on reins until they are 5, 6, 7?

Erm. Yes.

Your child's safety is more important than your ego.

I get it, I have a child who bolts off, doesn't follow adult instructions, makes loud noises all the time, does inappropriate and impulsive things like kicking, pouring water from cups, tipping plates over, not able to wait for gratification, etc. He is autistic. I don't know if your son is, but kids just develop in their own way and your job as a parent is to make sure that they're safe by whatever means necessary.

My son is almost 6, we sometimes still have to use a pushchair for his safety. We sometimes have to use reigns. We have to practice playing the stop-go game every day for his safety.

That what I was getting.

If he's two and running off and not listening that perfectly normal behavior for 2 year olds and he should be on reins at that age no question.

My mistake, he is actually four. Sounds rough. Im finding 3.5 challenging enough….

No, he’s four?

Thanks for the replies. I definitely don’t think I’m a perfect parent but I don’t think I’m notably worse than most parents who seem to have good loving relationships with their children, as indeed I do with my other child.

I haven’t listed verbatim what I’ve said on every occasion which is why asking advice is sometimes a non starter as people say things like ‘ah well of course it’s your fault, you didn’t tell him it is rude to bang when someone is in there’ - I did!

I do think somethings gone badly wrong with our relationship and I don’t know how or why. I often wake up full of purpose and determination to put it right but other days I’m just drained.

Ah, ok, I read it as DS is 4th child.

In which case yes, his behaviour does sound difficult.

With two younger siblings, though, I’d wonder if it was classic attention seeking.

Also maybe look up the fawning response.

Some kids do laugh when they're stressed. When they know that they're going to get told off, especially if they're acting on impulse or are behaving in a way that you think they can control but they can't because they have issues delaying gratification or can't find another way to get a need met, whether that's attention, the toilet, food, entertainment etc.

I found the opposite. Around 8 was when the cheek and problems stasrted after being a great wee boy.

Sensory seeking and running away screams ND to me.