To find DS4 so bloody annoying

[hoppingandhop]

I feel rotten as he’s only a little kid but he’s such hard work. Here are some examples which I’m not looking for advice on per se, its more to give an idea what life with him is like.

• licking people. He’s started trying to lick my face and his sisters face. We hate it. Tell him to stop and laughs and tries to do it more. Move him away he moves back.
• whines for things all the time, toys, ice cream,
• has taken to shouting. Not saying anything or for any reason like fear or pain just suddenly lets loose with a massive bellow AHHHH. Then stops.

there’s a lot more. He also often doesn’t listen to anything we/I say. Some more examples are

• Pelting off when we were at a park and ignoring me shouting to come back. I ran after him and couldn’t find him for ages. Eventually find him by a pond.
• on holiday we were going down a steep flight of steps with no guard on one side. The wall was on the other. I was holding a baby so couldn’t supervise (he suddenly took off) people above were screaming at me to get him to come back and I’m yelling come back DS but he just … blanks me. It’s like no one’s spoken. This happens a LOT but these were two very dangerous occasions.

its a horrible thing to admit but I just wish I didn’t have him. I hate spending time with him as he’s either annoying, completely not listening (blanking me) or being downright nasty to me and sometimes he is.

I like being a parent to my other child but not him and keep wondering wtf is wrong with me. I’m sure a lot of stuff is him trying to make a connection but when you try more positive ways it doesn’t work.

He's 4. What did you expect?

Speak to a professional about his behaviour and your feelings. Social services may be able to signpost you to some parenting support. In my neck of the woods there is an organisation called Home Start who provide support for families with young children. Are they in your area?

You have tried yes - but you still don't like him and he'll be picking up on that.

I know this behaviour is hard but it's fairly typical.

I'm guessing his other sibling is a girl? What's the age gap?

My oldest hated having a sibling and really acted up for years (still does TBH). Incidentally both children are neurodivergent.

Where's the dad / other partner in this?

I wonder whether a different parenting approach would work here.

Have you heard of Hand in Hand parenting? It's a change from the norm so you have to let go of your preconceptions but it helped me build a connection with my DC when things were tough.

Thanks @LadyTwattington

One of the issues is that it is quite personal. He can be really nasty and will say things like ‘get out of my way’ in a sort of ‘growl’ or scream at me. Of course some behaviours are just annoying and tedious and that’s normal and if they were coupled with sweetness and affection and warmth it would be fine and sometimes they are but this Easter has been a whole new level.

I honestly do recognise I’ve caused a lot of it unintentionally but when you try to put it right and can’t it makes you feel so helpless.

I think you need to stop and think a lot as a parent. It's not easy, but you have to parent the child you have... even when they go through a stage of licking you.

It sounds harsh but whilst some behaviours are going to trigger you, that's your issue not your child's.

I love and like both my children equally, but one pushes my buttons more than his brother (actually, I think in my case it's because we're quite similar). That's not his fault though and it's my job to make sure he gets just as good a version of me as his brother does.

This means working on my own resilience and emotional regulation. Figuring out exactly why I struggle with some of his behaviour and work through it so that I can deal with the actual behaviour, rather than having an emotional reaction to it.

In my case, a trigger is him not listening when I tell him to do something/stop doing something. This bothers me because it's often something dangerous and that makes me anxious. And, when I was growing up I was always told off for not listening, so his 'failure' feels like a continuation of my own failure to listen to get things right as a child.

Thinking about this helps me to react in a way that works (deep breaths for both of us, consistent calm consequences, and noticing when he is starting to get contrary so that I can address the underlying causes... usually he's tired/hungry/just needs to be given some choices so he feels in control), rather than getting angry and exasperating the situation.

Speak to your Health Visitor. They’ll be able to point you towards to extra support.

Is he at school?

Don’t feel bad, that all sounds really annoying.

Does he need things spelt out before they happen, e. g. the toilet situation, before you go in explain he might have to wait, well done for waiting, yes, someone is in there etc sometimes you have to be that running commentary parent.

He's picked that behaviour up from somewhere.

Do you speak to him like that? Does his dad speak to him and/or you like that?

Well yes but if they don’t listen to a clear ‘hold my hand’ then it’s a bit hard to know what to do. Have them on reins until they are 5, 6, 7? Not leave the house? Obviously I’m being facetious but it’s how it is.

But that's the reality of parenting! Parents constantly have to problem-solve around their children. It's completely normal, not a special problem only you have and none of the rest of us can possibly understand.

If he doesn't listen to 'hold my hand', you carry him or, yes, have him attached to toddler reins. You certainly don't let him go down dangerous stairs while you carry a baby so that you don't have any free hands.

If you are unable to accept any criticism of your parenting, you are going to really struggle to improve your relationship with your child. That will damage you and him.

I would recommend booking onto a parenting course.

Parenting is a long game and you clearly care and want to put it right. You're a good mum doing her best right now. I feel like you're worried he's going to turn out to be an awful human being and his behaviour will never improve - but remember a 4yo saying this something not the same as an adult saying it.

Fear is behind so many of our behaviours as adults and as children.

What are you scared of when it comes to your son?

What's he scared of?

Your sweet boy is hurting. An angry 4yo is saying "I need help".

What do you need in order to love him unconditionally?

You sound exasperated but I don’t think that behaviour sounds particularly unusual. Instead of shouting or demanding you should be anticipating behaviours and holding his hand and setting expectations. Ignore the growling and pushback. Just keep setting expectations and physically directing where and what you want him to do. Praise, praise, praise, love, cuddle, kiss, tickle and praise some more.

Where is your husband in this? You’ve had two children. Where is his input into his son’s development?

I honestly do recognise I’ve caused a lot of it unintentionally but when you try to put it right and can’t it makes you feel so helpless.

It's so important that you realise you are NOT helpless. You are the one with the power to change the situation, not your son. You need help to change your parenting strategies, which is absolutely fine as long as you work hard to get that help. Stop telling yourself you are helpless.

Absolutely not @MargotB . I’m not perfect but I have certainly never spoken to anyone like that and neither has his dad.

People saying that it’s my issue and I need to work on it - I totally agree. and I really am trying but don’t seem to be getting anywhere and if anything he seems to be getting more hostile towards me and I’m miserable. I’m not enjoying feeling like I do. It’s just a thought that creeps in after a long day when I am spoken to like shit, when I think what life might be like. It’s horrible, I do know this. I wish I was able to look at him with adoration and love but it’s so hard when I get nothing back but annoying behaviour, ignored or hostility.

I really feel for you because you sound as if you’re at the end of your tether.
It really isn’t helpful from the posters saying you clearly don’t like your child. I imagine you love him dearly, you just don’t like his negative behaviour.
Does he go to nursery? Is his dad on the scene?

There is literally nothing that I haven’t tried to do. A relationship is two way and if DS doesn’t want the relationship then I’m limited in what I can do. I can’t make him listen to me.

At the moment all I can see is a very black future and it wasn’t what I envisioned at all when I. Was handed a baby four and a half years ago.

Is there a chance that he's neurodiverse? Kids often do weird things but usually grow out of it. I'm not trying to over diagnose but I have special kids, myself, and the key is they don't grow out of it! The classic of 'you wouldn't put your hand in the fire'....oh yes, they would! Then they'll probably do it tomorrow. You sound worn down.

We all have difficult times with our children. I would recommend reading some parenting books such as No Bad Kids (short and useful real life examples, as well as child psychology based explanations).

It's a really hard situation to hear about but truly your son just needs your love and understanding more than anything. Kids test boundaries and they have big emotions they struggle to deal with, but it's up to us to teach them how to react appropriately through our example and explanations.

He's your oldest child by the sounds of it, so everything with him will be harder. You've already learned how to parent younger ages from him, so of course you will find your younger child more manageable, but that doesn't mean your not a great parent to your son, as well, still.

Yes to both. He’s fine at nursery - seems to enjoy it. He’s sometimes ok with me, especially when dad isn’t around. When he (dad) and I are both present he’s vile to me. Not because of his dad … I don’t know what it is.

I wish more than anything I could love him as he deserves. I wish I could wave him off to school in September and feel real grief. I actually don’t mind spending time with just him but the listening or lack of is still an issue and it can make for scary and embarrassing situations.

Why does it matter if he bangs the door? He’s not going to break it, is he? With my DS, if he’s in a banging sort of mood, I say “let’s get your drum” so he has a better alternative to make some noise. He’s giggling because it’s just a game - you seem to think he’s mocking you but he literally does not have the cognitive capacity to do that yet. He only just about grasps that you have your own mind at all.

You are the parent here. Stop taking his behaviour personally. You grab his hand and you hold on, even when he wriggles and thrashes, and you say on repeat calmly “you have to hold hands because I don’t want you to hurt yourself”. You say “we can’t move from here until you’re ready, but we can wait until you are”. And you stick to it, every single time. Then when he does do it, you say “I really like holding hands with you”.

Some questions you’re not answering - how is your DS with his Dad, his grandparents. Etc ? What’s his behaviour like at nursery/school ? Have you spoken school/nursery to see if they suspect additional needs ?

What you are doing up to now is clearly not working - both yourself and your DS need professional help.

But you can’t turn back time so you need a solution.
At 4 he needs to hold a hand. Maybe get reins? Hold my hand or you will wear these reins. Hold my hand. Hold my hand. Baby or not. Is there a chance he is acting out because of the baby?

If he screams it’s a firm NO. You stop in your tracks and hold his hand. NO. If he acts up you tell him No, every time. Regardless of the baby. I know this is hard, I have 4 and two are 2 and under.
Same with the licking, No. Take him aside and tell him it can’t happen. No dramatics, just No. Don’t give him a het up reaction he prob wants.
Some kids are just harder work than others, you have to be on at them more.

He sounds a lot like my DS was at that age. He turned out to be autistic and is also awaiting ADHD assessment.

He drove me fucking bananas and just reading that post really reminded me of how stressful it was at the time.

However he did chill out a lot as he got older. Hang in there. And start the ball rolling on having him assessed for ASD/ADHD!

The thing is - and this is the hard bit to swallow - it could take you years to make notable progress.

And that's why you feel you're not getting anywhere and feel defeated. You sort of have to trust the process. Be consistent for a year and see where you get to. You will get hostility at first and you need to show your son that despite this you'll still turn up for him.

Can you access therapy or counseling for yourself? As having a safe space you can offload might be helpful too.

Neurodiverse - don’t know. I wouldn’t say no but no real signs and nursery haven’t picked up on anything.

I do wonder sometimes if there’s some mild learning difficulties at play. I have noticed my younger child is much more advanced than DS was at this age. And DS does seem to struggle with some things. But nursery haven’t commented on this. It’s possible it’s just one of those ‘they are all different’ things.

I’m not posting saying ‘I feel horrible things and listen to me and say it’s ok.’ I’m posting saying ‘I feel horrible things and I feel horrible about them.’