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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find DS4 so bloody annoying

483 replies

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 08:19

I feel rotten as he’s only a little kid but he’s such hard work. Here are some examples which I’m not looking for advice on per se, its more to give an idea what life with him is like.

  • licking people. He’s started trying to lick my face and his sisters face. We hate it. Tell him to stop and laughs and tries to do it more. Move him away he moves back.
  • whines for things all the time, toys, ice cream,
  • has taken to shouting. Not saying anything or for any reason like fear or pain just suddenly lets loose with a massive bellow AHHHH. Then stops.

there’s a lot more. He also often doesn’t listen to anything we/I say. Some more examples are

  • Pelting off when we were at a park and ignoring me shouting to come back. I ran after him and couldn’t find him for ages. Eventually find him by a pond.
  • on holiday we were going down a steep flight of steps with no guard on one side. The wall was on the other. I was holding a baby so couldn’t supervise (he suddenly took off) people above were screaming at me to get him to come back and I’m yelling come back DS but he just … blanks me. It’s like no one’s spoken. This happens a LOT but these were two very dangerous occasions.

its a horrible thing to admit but I just wish I didn’t have him. I hate spending time with him as he’s either annoying, completely not listening (blanking me) or being downright nasty to me and sometimes he is.

I like being a parent to my other child but not him and keep wondering wtf is wrong with me. I’m sure a lot of stuff is him trying to make a connection but when you try more positive ways it doesn’t work.

OP posts:
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Billionthtimeivenamechanged2025 · 22/04/2025 16:22

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 16:14

I think a lot of posters are assuming there are lots of professionals with not much else on eager to help.

If I was to seek help from a HV or a GP they would want to know what he’s like at nursery, suggest hearing tests and then parenting courses.

If i rang social services for help, they would suggest my HV or GP.

I feel that this is a situation I am best managing as best I can. I do love DS and I don’t really wish I hadn’t had him. Words and feelings can be borne from momentary frustration, tiredness and worry.

I feel that this is a situation I am best managing as best I can. I do love DS and I don’t really wish I hadn’t had him. Words and feelings can be borne from momentary frustration, tiredness and worry

But your not managing? And maybe there's some aspects of parenting courses you'd find helpful? And.......I've had support from several services for my ND children over these last 4 years, I'm a single mum and I've never had to go on a parenting course.

Your not managing and you need some support managing his behaviour and your reactions ( even if their internal )

Parenting is difficult, especially with more than one. Reach out and look for some support, you'll be surprised how much is out there and how much it helps

SussexLass87 · 22/04/2025 16:23

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 16:14

I think a lot of posters are assuming there are lots of professionals with not much else on eager to help.

If I was to seek help from a HV or a GP they would want to know what he’s like at nursery, suggest hearing tests and then parenting courses.

If i rang social services for help, they would suggest my HV or GP.

I feel that this is a situation I am best managing as best I can. I do love DS and I don’t really wish I hadn’t had him. Words and feelings can be borne from momentary frustration, tiredness and worry.

I did seek help from my GP when my kids were younger, and they wanted to listen. They also put me on some brilliant anti anxiety meds that gave me enough of a boost to get through it when things were challenging.

I also felt like you did, that I didn't feel bad enough / down enough to qualify for help.

We don't know eachother, but just in case you do need that support, I don't want you to think it doesn't exist.

Maybe you wanted a vent here, rather than the well meaning advice - vents can be helpful in their own way - and that things improve for you both soon x

Thecatthatgotthesouredmilk · 22/04/2025 16:33

Distraction is your friend. If he starts playing up ( which is completely normal 4 year old behaviour) try and distract from the behaviour.

MyOpalCat · 22/04/2025 16:34

If I was to seek help from a HV or a GP they would want to know what he’s like at nursery, suggest hearing tests and then parenting courses.

I think many of us are thinking you do need some outside support.

I think sure start children centers used to be good for this - less pressue you could drop in and get sign posted to some support.

You do come across as very negative towards him everything is his fault- but it's hard to work out of if it's him struggling due to ND/SEN/Hearing issues - or your perception of what he should be able to do that at fault - or some combination.

I think first step is to talk to nursury see if they have concerns - ask them ouright be blunt - and if things don't get on a more even keel post hoilday see about GP or HV see what they can suggest in local area to get some support.

Long term things do get better as they get older - but persoanlly the early years of school made things worse in my family - extra demands, new rotutines and a new environmnet to struggle in and fal behind in so I'd wouldn't suggest waiting and seeing if school makes it all better.

nonmerci99 · 22/04/2025 16:48

BoogieBoogieWoogie · 22/04/2025 15:45

The poll is roughly 50/50 OP so don't be too hard on yourself. YANBU to find your 4 year old annoying and draining and bloody hard work

Except that isn’t what her numerous posts say. Considering you laughed at my interpretation that she may be emotionally abusive toward her child, whom she has repeatedly said or implied she does not like, wishes was never born, and resents, I would take your reading with a very large pinch of salt.

Lots of posters here are projecting their own past or present frustrations, anger, and resentments toward their own loved and well-treated children and applying that misguidedly to this poster. If you can genuinely read all of the OP’s posts and excuse them, then I feel sorry for your kids.

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 16:58

If posters ever genuinely feel sorry for a child (and aren’t just saying it in order to make a poster feel bad) the best thing they can do is to try to support the mother. That’s what Sure Start did, that’s what SS in the first instance do, that’s what home start and family support do.

I posted here in frustration and upset. it ends up sort of feeling a bit like you’ve got your hands dirty; some things are probably best left unsaid or kept in your head.

Life can be hard with two young children and very little support and lately I’ve been romanticising how comparatively easy it is with one. I remember when I had DD and DS was two and a half and just starting to be a bit more independent and then I was thinking how nice that was. It doesn’t really mean you don’t want them.

OP posts:
Aregularalmondmum · 22/04/2025 16:59

Imagine the courage it took to not only admit that she is struggling but to come here for some support, whether that be in the form of advice or just a space to vent. Blaming and criticising isn't the way. Kind words, helpful ideas and no judgement are the way. Maybe she just needs someone to hug her and remind her she isn't a shit human and she's got this, that with some hard work she can turn this all around and in the process create a stronger relationship with her son.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 22/04/2025 17:02

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 16:20

That does sound quite like DS @BertieBotts . Maybe not as extreme but I can’t talk to him in the moment or after it so it’s a bit like … wtf DO I do!?

I don’t want DS to have autism or ADHD but in some ways you could kind of say … oh this is it, this is what it is. But I can’t do that. I don’t know what it is!

Whether you want him to or not, he either is ND or he isn't.

If you don't at least look into it and it happens to be that he is ND, all his life he's going to be labelled annoying, weird, violent, ignorant, defiant, stubborn, and a load of other names. Think about what that's going to do to his self esteem.

The worst that could happen is if you get a referral and a multidisciplinary input and they come to the conclusion that he is ND, you can say no, he's not annoying, he is ND.

And having been through the process yes they will want involvement from nursery or school. Waiting lists are long anyway and nurseries aren't always the best place for providing supporting evidence but by the time he does get an appointment he should be in a school with access to more professionals, his boundaries and patience will naturally be tested more and they will likely see a variation in his behaviour that will be reportable to support evidence either for or against a diagnosis.

BertieBotts · 22/04/2025 17:07

Well DS' doctor thinks it is part of his ADHD, so maybe it's worth exploring these things for your DS. Not that that tells us what to do about it. But it is the basis for the referral to OT - he has since had an OT assessment, and they found that his core strength and balance is poor, which is probably causing some of the dysregulation because basically he's having to constantly expend so much more effort just to sit and stand, and it may be causing some of the frustrating behaviour like never being still, plus he wants to drape himself over people all the time or shove his face into your face or just BE very close to everyone, which is probably that he's looking for some deep pressure input. Knowing this is helpful, because we can try to give him deep pressure input (or, in less jargony terms, he needs daily exercise to get excess energy out and he likes to be "squished" to make him feel more secure). Although it will be more useful I think once we actually get regular OT sessions which we haven't yet.

We would not have picked up that he has poor strength - he can ride a bike with no stabilisers and a scooter and he goes climbing with DH and does well at this, and doesn't seem particularly uncoordinated or accident prone. So it was a surprise to be told that he struggles there. However, he does have this curious tendency which is when he's being really hyper and manic (and often annoying or silly as part of this) to accidentally hurt himself, which we always jokingly referred to as his "instant karma setting", because it's almost like the universe delivering some kind of instant payback - but I have reflected recently that I think what's happening is the more dysregulated he is, the less aware he is of where his body is in space so he is more likely to hurt himself as a result of this.

I also notice that he has poor interoception, which is awareness of internal sensations, so he doesn't know he needs to go to the toilet until he is bursting, he will not notice that he is hungry, or feeling poorly, he will not think to adjust his own clothing in relation to being hot or cold (he has only recently started to voice that he is hot or cold), and he doesn't notice emotions ramping up, they just all explode seemingly out of nowhere. This is also something we are hoping to work on with OT. I have no idea how to do that so we are more scaffolding it and trying to check in with him or let him know when it's been a while since he's been to the toilet etc. But this seems to be a big source of stress as often when he is in one of the "far away" moods, if we can get him to eat or go to the toilet, it helps.

I don't know quite how the UK system would handle it - perhaps posters in the UK could tell you. I know that 6 is about the earliest they assess for ADHD where we are. He was about 5.5 when I first phoned for the appointment and it came through about 8-9 months later. In the meantime I was lurking in a lot of ND parenting spaces and I picked up resources from there, like the idea of finding games which allow us to "squish" him, which I think is perfectly valid to do, even if your child ends up later not needing any assessment. If the "normal" approaches aren't working, it might be these approaches make more sense, and it might be a temporary bridge to help him in the short term or it might be that it's the start of a longer road. But it's definitely nice to feel less alone and less like you're the only one struggling with these things.

BertieBotts · 22/04/2025 17:11

Also WRT it being a tough 4 days - Easter seems very hyped as a holiday. It is worse now. Or maybe DS2 reacts to it more than DS1 did, but DS1 would be all over the place in response to events like Christmas, not so much for Easter. DS2 is unsettled and extra in response to every little holiday or celebration or change of routine.

Anyway, lack of routine plus extra sugar/chocolate plus any exciting events like Easter Egg hunts or family visits are all extra tough if you have a child who struggles with emotional control, IME.

pleasepleasepleasedontmakemedothefolding · 22/04/2025 17:16

We have a very highly strung older child (age 5). She got so much better after starting school/having a real routine. I found big little feelings on Instagram and their course very helpful, especially with the adjusting to two children stuff. The only thing that worked for our daughter (and still does) is a mini timer with real time out that equates to her age. Real behavioural issues have real consequences. She can sit and see the time count down and then we talk about what to do the next time. Have you tried a basic time out using their age, with a timer? The first time we did it she was hellish and pretty much climbing the walls to not do it, but we stuck it out, and she learned fast. It isn't easy with two, so wishing you well with this.

BoogieBoogieWoogie · 22/04/2025 17:21

nonmerci99 · 22/04/2025 16:48

Except that isn’t what her numerous posts say. Considering you laughed at my interpretation that she may be emotionally abusive toward her child, whom she has repeatedly said or implied she does not like, wishes was never born, and resents, I would take your reading with a very large pinch of salt.

Lots of posters here are projecting their own past or present frustrations, anger, and resentments toward their own loved and well-treated children and applying that misguidedly to this poster. If you can genuinely read all of the OP’s posts and excuse them, then I feel sorry for your kids.

Laughing at the hyperbole of your post. “Absolutely mystified by the people who think this is perfectly normal and reasonable”. It is normal. Widen your circle or open your mind a little perhaps

nonmerci99 · 22/04/2025 17:22

BoogieBoogieWoogie · 22/04/2025 17:21

Laughing at the hyperbole of your post. “Absolutely mystified by the people who think this is perfectly normal and reasonable”. It is normal. Widen your circle or open your mind a little perhaps

No, it’s not. Blaming your four year old for being a child, stating repeatedly you can do no more, saying the child should give instead of take, saying you only like your second child — it’s not normal. It’s very sad you think it is. OP needs mental health support, not posters telling her her very toxic feelings toward her firstborn are normal.

BertieBotts · 22/04/2025 17:23

Children's Centres have started to be replaced in some areas BTW with "Family Hubs" - if you no longer have a children's centre, you could look for a family hub.

If they want to send you on a parenting course, and you have the time, then give it a go, sometimes they do have useful pointers and it can be useful to have someone to directly ask OK - my child doesn't respond the way the course says they should, what do I do then? And if it is no use at all, then you can take that info back to the GP and say I've tried the approach in this course, and the result was XYZ, I think we need further investigation/input. If you don't want to participate in the course because it's the same approach you already know does not work, you could explain what you've followed previously.

As his hearing has been checked, you could say since his hearing is fine you want APD ruled out or you think it's more of a behaviour issue. I think unfortunately because the NHS etc is so overloaded, you don't usually get an automatic follow up and "what's next?" appointment because they sort of just hope you will go away, but you can make one and ask the question yourself.

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 17:23

@BertieBotts that does sound a lot like DS. He doesn’t recognise he’s hungry, I have to nag him endlessly to drink, we’ve actually had a number of soiled accidents over the last few days as well.

OP posts:
nonmerci99 · 22/04/2025 17:25

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 16:58

If posters ever genuinely feel sorry for a child (and aren’t just saying it in order to make a poster feel bad) the best thing they can do is to try to support the mother. That’s what Sure Start did, that’s what SS in the first instance do, that’s what home start and family support do.

I posted here in frustration and upset. it ends up sort of feeling a bit like you’ve got your hands dirty; some things are probably best left unsaid or kept in your head.

Life can be hard with two young children and very little support and lately I’ve been romanticising how comparatively easy it is with one. I remember when I had DD and DS was two and a half and just starting to be a bit more independent and then I was thinking how nice that was. It doesn’t really mean you don’t want them.

If that’s the case, then I’d urge you to seek therapy to work through your complicated and frankly unfair feelings toward your son. Since you have stated again and again that you don’t want advice and can’t do anything else, it wasn’t clear what you were looking for. I find your comments disturbing and think you should find a professional to help you, as the mum, process what you are going through. I don’t think you should continue blaming your child.

Mummypie21 · 22/04/2025 17:31

4 is a difficult age. I felt the same about my older son when he was 4. I actually didn't enjoy spending time with him and felt more protective of his younger brother (who was a newborn). Now my younger one is 3 and is at the difficult stage whereas my older son is 7 and generally lovely and helpful. The hard times do pass quickly.

IButtleSir · 22/04/2025 17:33

Aregularalmondmum · 22/04/2025 16:59

Imagine the courage it took to not only admit that she is struggling but to come here for some support, whether that be in the form of advice or just a space to vent. Blaming and criticising isn't the way. Kind words, helpful ideas and no judgement are the way. Maybe she just needs someone to hug her and remind her she isn't a shit human and she's got this, that with some hard work she can turn this all around and in the process create a stronger relationship with her son.

that with some hard work she can turn this all around and in the process create a stronger relationship with her son.

This is what people have told her, repeatedly. But OP's refusal to consider parenting courses and her repeated statements that "relationships are a two way street" and "if DS doesn't respond to me, that's the end of it" (it's possible I'm slightly paraphrasing, but that's the jist) make it seem like she's not willing to put in that hard work, which is inexcusable from a parent.

ETA:

OP's exact quote: All I can do is try but relationships are two way. I can offer but ultimately if DS doesn’t respond then that ends there.

And when I asked her if she'd tried parenting courses, as many posters had suggested, she replied: No and I don't plan to.

MyOpalCat · 22/04/2025 17:36

He doesn’t recognise he’s hungry, I have to nag him endlessly to drink, we’ve actually had a number of soiled accidents over the last few days as well.

DS has this as well - he's still not diagonsed with ADHD coped with school after a rough start- DD1 had to wait till Uni to get diagnosed. Private was out of our means.

I'd have a look at dyspraxia as well - see if you see anything that fits.

You have to think more that they are struggling - not being difficult for the sake of it (though they can be that as well)

I'd start reading strategies around these conditions - see if you can find things that help him succeed.

https://www.youngminds.org.uk/parent/parents-a-z-mental-health-guide/adhd/

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/adhd-children-teenagers/

I

nhs.uk

ADHD in children and young people

Find out about ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) in children and teenagers, the symptoms of ADHD, how to get a diagnosis and how to manage it.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/adhd-children-teenagers

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 17:38

You are taking those out of the surrounding context though. Which is that posters ask questions, like ‘what have you done to engage him’ and I say ‘well this but it doesn’t work as he often isn’t listening. So relationships are a bit of a two way street and if I’m not getting anything back that’s it (as in I’m not sure what else to do.)

Parenting courses aren’t something I’m against as such but I’m not sure there’s anything on them I haven’t already familiarised myself with through reading.

To be honest though it reads like you just want to give me as hard a time as possible, and whatever I say will be wrong.

OP posts:
Stresshead84x · 22/04/2025 18:00

MyOpalCat · 22/04/2025 17:36

He doesn’t recognise he’s hungry, I have to nag him endlessly to drink, we’ve actually had a number of soiled accidents over the last few days as well.

DS has this as well - he's still not diagonsed with ADHD coped with school after a rough start- DD1 had to wait till Uni to get diagnosed. Private was out of our means.

I'd have a look at dyspraxia as well - see if you see anything that fits.

You have to think more that they are struggling - not being difficult for the sake of it (though they can be that as well)

I'd start reading strategies around these conditions - see if you can find things that help him succeed.

https://www.youngminds.org.uk/parent/parents-a-z-mental-health-guide/adhd/

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/adhd-children-teenagers/

I

I strongly suspect my daughter has ADHD (and myself also) and some of your posts really resonate OP, I found parenting really difficult at times, it's getting easier as she gets older. She's also my oldest. I remember posting on a parenting group when she was about 4 at breaking point also but things settled and got better.

Not recognising he's hungry, not listening/hearing, not being able to sit down and talk to him I think they're all worth speaking to the school. I also think it would be difficult to get any sort of diagnosis with mine as she's well behaved in school but I see signs of it at home with emotional dysregulation, lack of motivation etc.

I think speaking to nursery would be a very good start for you and hopefully you can get some support.

Clockface8 · 22/04/2025 18:02

but I’m not sure there’s anything on them I haven’t already familiarised myself with through reading.

so if you’re not sure, why rule them out?

Thelosthalfathought · 22/04/2025 18:03

@hoppingandhop

Im going to be completely honest the holiday in the summer before 4 year old went to school I’d have happily sold him at the market.

He drove me batty! Would argue the sky was green, sea was yellow etc… threw things, called me names etc Was a horror!

he’s 9 now and a lovely cuddly cutie! Super polite, mostly helpful and generally a pleasure to spend time with!

hold on! He was a bit of a horror till Easter of reception year, and then suddenly the child I knew returned back to me. I put it down to testosterone surge.

It’s a phase!

hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 18:06

Clockface8 · 22/04/2025 18:02

but I’m not sure there’s anything on them I haven’t already familiarised myself with through reading.

so if you’re not sure, why rule them out?

  1. money. Many of them cost a lot.
  2. time. I work three days a week and the rest of the time I have my kids.
  3. finding a reputable one.
  4. distance - many will be quite a way away
  5. convenience. Some will be on on days I work or at times I can’t make it.
OP posts:
hoppingandhop · 22/04/2025 18:07

That’s lovely @Thelosthalfathought Flowers

OP posts:
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