To find DS4 so bloody annoying

[hoppingandhop]

I feel rotten as he’s only a little kid but he’s such hard work. Here are some examples which I’m not looking for advice on per se, its more to give an idea what life with him is like.

• licking people. He’s started trying to lick my face and his sisters face. We hate it. Tell him to stop and laughs and tries to do it more. Move him away he moves back.
• whines for things all the time, toys, ice cream,
• has taken to shouting. Not saying anything or for any reason like fear or pain just suddenly lets loose with a massive bellow AHHHH. Then stops.

there’s a lot more. He also often doesn’t listen to anything we/I say. Some more examples are

• Pelting off when we were at a park and ignoring me shouting to come back. I ran after him and couldn’t find him for ages. Eventually find him by a pond.
• on holiday we were going down a steep flight of steps with no guard on one side. The wall was on the other. I was holding a baby so couldn’t supervise (he suddenly took off) people above were screaming at me to get him to come back and I’m yelling come back DS but he just … blanks me. It’s like no one’s spoken. This happens a LOT but these were two very dangerous occasions.

its a horrible thing to admit but I just wish I didn’t have him. I hate spending time with him as he’s either annoying, completely not listening (blanking me) or being downright nasty to me and sometimes he is.

I like being a parent to my other child but not him and keep wondering wtf is wrong with me. I’m sure a lot of stuff is him trying to make a connection but when you try more positive ways it doesn’t work.

There is literally nothing that I haven’t tried to do.

I think if you can say this with a straight face and you haven’t consulted one single professional, then there’s little hope

Sorry I don’t think we did, maybe it was another poster. I suggested together with quite a few others that you have reached the stage where you probably need outside help but I didn’t see a response from you about it.

The poll is roughly 50/50 OP so don't be too hard on yourself. YANBU to find your 4 year old annoying and draining and bloody hard work

I really feel for you and think you’ve got a lot of unnecessary flack off the perfect parents of Mumsnet here. Honestly your son does sound like hard work. I have a hard work four year old and it drives me crazy when people tell me just to parent better, like I haven’t tried. Im hoping mine chills out as she gets older. Hope yours does too. Don’t beat yourself too much. I’m sure this phase will pass. You’ll connect with him again as you obviously really want to and you wouldn’t be on here if you didn’t love him deep down even if you don’t like his behaviour right now.

The response is a flat no from the Op

Reins? Backpack with long strap?

Finally some good advice, rather than everyone judging the OP.

Advice that the op has roundly said NOT going to happen

Op is focused on finding a way to blame the child. They cannot accept they may have a problem. The examples op gave were the worst she could find and they were examples of a normal 3 year old pushing boundaries. To continue to offer diagnosis of the child is immoral and feeds into the ops mindset. I think people may be well meaning but when a parent begins to hyper focus on their child the damage is swift. Asks yourselves really how comfortable are you with the way she describes her interactions with this child she's using an adult framework to judge their relationship. This is wrong and can escalate to more overt emotional abuse. We can empathise we can offer tips we cannot support someone doing emotional damage. At 4 she knows her mother dislikes her this is a terrible situation.

All of my children have been "hard work" at various times but I have never once wished they had never been born!

I feel so sorry for this little boy.

Sounds like someone may need a taste of their own medicine.

Speak to your GP. You may have a wait but they can refer you to free counselling. If you work, your employer may have an employee assistance scheme.

"he may just be an arsehole"

That is a really sad way to talk about a child.

I don't believe any child is fundamentally bad. They could be made arseholes by the way they are treated, by what they are exposed to.

Lots of people grow up to be arseholes because their mothers didn't show them enough love. Frankly it already seems like the OP has decided that will be her child's future, because she's written him off already.

Hi OP - I wonder if he's had a lot of changes happen in his life (new sibling // starting school soon) and this is a way of some of that anxiety coming out?

Which isn't a huge amount of help to you at the moment, especially when you're trying so many things.

Have you got IRL support? And would it be worth asking for some support from the GP? You sound like you're being so hard on yourself when you're trying to juggle challenging behaviours from your son with the needs of the baby?

I agree with this

Also, nursery staff sometimes hesitant to flag up ASN if they know they don't have the resources to support the child

Perhaps worth exploring with health visitor?

Also...just on a practical note. My kids are ND (and I'm not saying your son is at all) but something that I've found is I have to give them warning before I speak to them.

So it's "Johnny, I've got something I need to say to you, I need you to listen"

Pause. Then when I know they've dialled in, then I give them the information / question.

It doesn't help you with moments like the stairs, which sounds really stressful and one of those things where events overtake really quickly. But when telling him what's for dinner it can help.

(I also had their ears tested, as they didn't respond much. Turned out it was because of ND, but could help?)

I think a lot of posters are assuming there are lots of professionals with not much else on eager to help.

If I was to seek help from a HV or a GP they would want to know what he’s like at nursery, suggest hearing tests and then parenting courses.

If i rang social services for help, they would suggest my HV or GP.

I feel that this is a situation I am best managing as best I can. I do love DS and I don’t really wish I hadn’t had him. Words and feelings can be borne from momentary frustration, tiredness and worry.

OP, I think you've been really honest about your darkest feelings and now some posters are using that as a stick to beat you with. But those feelings are common amongst mothers; it doesn't mean we act on them. And I think that acknowledging them is a good step towards trying to change things, because no one wants to feel like that towards their child and it's frightening.

I think it's really unedifying seeing PPs trying to force you down a particular route and then condemning you for apparently not following it. If there is something you are not ready to try, then that's fine - if you blindly followed every bit of advice on here it would do your head in.

I hope you and your DC are having a better day today. If we knew in advance how hard being a parent was, we would probably never sign up for it. The rewards might not be there at the moment for you, but they will be - it just takes time.

My DS is very like this. It's to do with when they're so dysregulated it's almost like they have dissociated. I call it "Gone to planet DS" and I actually think it is a kind of overwhelm. He processes everything in extremely high detail, and so it's almost like he's processed so many things that he has gone over some limit of living in reality and has gone into gaga land. (And yes he was assessed for autism, but the ADOS found no signs).

It is wearing because I can't address behaviour in the moment because he escalates so extremely that it's really all just de-escalation and keeping everyone safe.

If he's not totally sky high on a rocket blast and about to explode (his entire body is tense and wiry and his heart is going 10000 mph) then it's no use talking to him close to the moment anyway because he's not engaging - he's in his own world.

But then trying to talk about it afterwards is no use either because it's like he can't conceptualise a past event now that it has finished. This is getting a tiny bit better now he is older - but still, while he can now recall a past situation, the gap where he's neither exhausted, nor escalated by something else, nor overexcited by something is very small and doesn't always leave time for talking about behaviour. When we can catch that it feels like we get somewhere, but doesn't always translate into action, so very slow progress overall.

I think he is constantly at a low level of stress and trying to figure out what the causes of that are so we can alleviate any of it is the puzzle now. Looking to get him into OT, but there are waiting lists.

We've also had some input from speech therapy because he had some pronunciation issues and because we are in a non-English speaking country so he has had assessment due to not being a native speaker of the local language. They have suggested that we look into auditory processing disorder, which we may do (but he was having so many tests at that time we didn't want to put him through more, esp as APD doesn't "open any doors" as such in this country). I think in the UK it's less likely this would be flagged up unless you wanted to bring it up with a GP.

Honestly he is so very different to DS1 that it's a whole other ball game, although DS1 was like this, it wasn't as constant or extreme. But it is easier having DS1 as a handy reminder that while it was hard when he was younger he did grow out of it.

I suspect he is picking up the vibes you don't like him. He probably rarely gets 1 to 1 attention either. How sad for him that his mother doesn't like him. Put your big girl pants on and give him lots of attention and love. No shouting. Find a way to enjoy him. Poor child. Can Dad at least love him unconditionally?

That does sound quite like DS @BertieBotts . Maybe not as extreme but I can’t talk to him in the moment or after it so it’s a bit like … wtf DO I do!?

I don’t want DS to have autism or ADHD but in some ways you could kind of say … oh this is it, this is what it is. But I can’t do that. I don’t know what it is!

There's nothing wrong with you at all, OP, it's a difficult age and you have a lot going on with 2 little ones. It won't be like this forever, in fact it will very likely get easier when he starts school.

I apologise for not having read the whole thread but I have (now adult) boys, they always had a lot of energy so mine did (and still do) play a lot of sport. Both did Scouts (he is too young to start Beavers just yet but it might be worth getting his name down). Also, my exH always did a lot of sport with our sons. Just keep telling him that you love him and try to find ways to channel his energy and determination.