To find DS4 so bloody annoying

[hoppingandhop]

I feel rotten as he’s only a little kid but he’s such hard work. Here are some examples which I’m not looking for advice on per se, its more to give an idea what life with him is like.

• licking people. He’s started trying to lick my face and his sisters face. We hate it. Tell him to stop and laughs and tries to do it more. Move him away he moves back.
• whines for things all the time, toys, ice cream,
• has taken to shouting. Not saying anything or for any reason like fear or pain just suddenly lets loose with a massive bellow AHHHH. Then stops.

there’s a lot more. He also often doesn’t listen to anything we/I say. Some more examples are

• Pelting off when we were at a park and ignoring me shouting to come back. I ran after him and couldn’t find him for ages. Eventually find him by a pond.
• on holiday we were going down a steep flight of steps with no guard on one side. The wall was on the other. I was holding a baby so couldn’t supervise (he suddenly took off) people above were screaming at me to get him to come back and I’m yelling come back DS but he just … blanks me. It’s like no one’s spoken. This happens a LOT but these were two very dangerous occasions.

its a horrible thing to admit but I just wish I didn’t have him. I hate spending time with him as he’s either annoying, completely not listening (blanking me) or being downright nasty to me and sometimes he is.

I like being a parent to my other child but not him and keep wondering wtf is wrong with me. I’m sure a lot of stuff is him trying to make a connection but when you try more positive ways it doesn’t work.

Yes, or cut costs and budget so you can afford some counseling. I don’t understand why you’ve made this post — you say you don’t want advice, say you can’t do anything more than you’ve done, and seem to want everyone to agree with you that your small child is a horrible problem that can’t be solved. Honestly, it defies understanding.

Being fed up or disliking your kid is normal, but the tone of your posts and the way you talk about him as if you hate him and resent him is NOT normal.

There is literally nothing that I haven’t tried to do. A relationship is two way and if DS doesn’t want the relationship then I’m limited in what I can do. I can’t make him listen to me

What. The. Actual. Hell??

This is a 4 year old Op? Your 4 year old? And not a 36 year old cousin three times removed that you’re talking about here?

Would you consider approaching your local children centre for a family worker, I skimmed through your responses, sorry if already tried or suggested.

Keep talking to him, even when he doesnt respond. Dont ask him questions because then youre opening the situation up for him to change it either by shouting or not reacting. Present him with clear facts 'its dangerous to run off you know that, Ive told you before. Now we cannot go to the park/feed the ducks etc because youve shown me that I cant trust you wont run off again, and that wouldnt be safe, so instead we're going to go home' Make sure there is a direct and immediate consequence to his actions - take away a biscuit, dont go somewhere fun etc, and communicate it to him in a way that he knows it was his actions that caused it. Also make sure you tell him how to behave next time so that he can go to the park, stay at a friends house etc - 'next time you need to stay holding my hand the whole way from the bus, until I tell you you're safe to let go, and then we get to stay and have fun'. If its something boring like the food shop, then build in a small treat immediatly after - a small snack, go on the swings, a sticker etc. He'll rebel to begin with, but stick at it, lots of deep breaths before you speak!

I also think youre comparing him to a 1 year old, who may well end up behaving exactly the same way, and even though youre doing it subconsciously, he can probably feel it in your subconcious tiny facial expressions, actions etc. So work on not comparing them, and stop wishing he wasnt there (even though I know its hard when theyre pushing allll the buttons!) I know it wont be immediate, but when those thoughts come up, counter them with 'this soon shall pass', because it most likely will. It just sucks in the meantime

Ignore the people on here telling you it's all on you, it isn't. He may have behavioural issues but also, he may just be an arsehole. Some kids are. Of course it's you and your immediate family's responsibility to correct unhelpful or negative habits but don't beat yourself up. Do get some support though so you can be super consistent with boundaries. If you feel exhausted it won't help with maintaining them and it becomes a vicious circle, so maybe that's the place to start?

This sounds like a super shitty space to be in so I hope you all manage to get to a better way of functioning.

And find a safe space to vent, every parent is allowed to have days where they don't like their children!

I think this phase will pass.
The only thing I learned about whining though, which does make my head explode, is that you say to them very calmly "Mummy can't understand when you use that voice, if you use your normal voice I can understand and help you"

And they stop whining. It works. you just have to remember to say it.

No. It is her. She's ignoring helpful suggestions and just keeps replying negatively to people basically saying nothing works.

It actually is her. All she needs to do is change her mindset and change the way she's parenting him. Clearly their not speaking the same language and she needs to learn his language instead of being such a negative nellie

Why are you so averse to getting an expert involved via your GP/ social services/ sure start/ equivalent in your area?

Thanks. See, he’s not an arsehole but his behaviour isn’t always particularly nice, I guess that’s kids though. I think I’d always envisioned that I’d be able to have gentle but reasonable conversations by four, where you can impress upon them the importance of not lamping another kid / not charging off but we can’t and that can be hard. DD is much younger but already I understand her much more.

Could he be neurodivergent ? Sounds like some autistic and or adhd traits .
my middle son used to be like this . Was such hard work and I used to feel the same as you .
he’s 13 now and actually the easiest of all my kids . I changed how I parented him . Consequences made no odds to him . I try to talk to him more and make sure he understands why I don’t want him to do that or why it’s important he does such and such .
I bet your son is pretty intelligent but needs a lot of stimulation . How would he get on at clubs etc ?

I don’t think I’ve said I am, but mostly because I know that involving social services will do literally nothing other than have me having to declare we’ve had social services intervention for the duration of my DCs childhood. They aren’t a hand holding service and aren’t appropriate here. DS doesn’t meet the threshold for support from HV or GP. Likewise while my own mood probably is low sometimes it isn’t low enough for that level. Things have to be not just bad but terrible for the sort of things people are pushing here so I haven’t really responded to them.

What have you tried with him OP?

That’s just not right I am afraid. There are loads of low level interventions which are accessible to you and designed for precisely this situation. I mentioned above that before my middle child could be properly assessed for ADHD we went on a parenting course which was really helpful and completely free. Have you even asked your GP/ children’s centre?

Is he with you atm OP?

OP, I somewhat empathise. Kids are a test of patience.

This post struck me. You day you've given a clear message here "there's someone in there", but that isn't clear at all, and my 4 year old would do the same as him.

What you're really saying is "stop banging on the door, NOW. or else we go home". That's giving an action. Telling him the problem rather than the solution might be adding to the frustration of your communication.

When it came to the wall, he probably thought you were being funny. I'd have had to have shouted something like "That's extremely dangerous, wait for me now".

It will just be a phase, hang in there. He's your kid now and he's here. You can either learn to accept 4 year old boys and learn to get along, or live in despair for years

I have a 4 year old and if he ran off then he would definitely be on reins until he could listen. In fact I had a set in one of my bags for a long time as he went through a phase of running and not listening. I only had to put them on him once or twice and he realised he'd rather listen.

He licks our faces quite a lot too.

He can be very mean to me and his dad. In fact he told me he wished he never had a mum and it could just be him and his dad for ever. We pull him up on it and remind him that words hurt people's feelings. I'm not sure it goes in all the time but I try to be consistent with it.

My advice would be to ignore as much as you can. If he licks you, lick him back and tickle him until he's begging for mercy. Play "horsey" on the floor and give him piggybacks and rough house with him. Ignore the rudeness or just call him something silly like a giant snotty-face back. Hug him a million times a day, dangle him upside down, kiss him and tell him how wonderful he is. Ask him to show you how to do stuff and say "I wish I could do that as well as you can". Aim to say "Aren't you a good big brother?" at least 20 times a day.

If it all gets too much, stick him in front of the TV, plug headphones in and smile as you disengage. I find music really helps. When I can't stand my kids and I'm about to scream at them, I put headphones in, turn the music up and smile at them as I clean stuff and think "I can't hear you".

You don't always have to win every battle as a parent. It's ok to be mediocre. As long as you're keeping them safe, fed and happy, there is a surprising amount you can let go. The only thing I'm really anti- is child-on-child violence.

I might have missed this in your posts, but when did he last have a hearing check? It's also worth checking for a receptive language difficulty - you may have to pay for a private assessment if there's a long wait on NHS referral.

I think we’ve had this exact same conversation earlier in the thread, @Heronwatcher .

@Hercisback1 as I’ve said, I’ve read a lot around the subject (the subject being parenting generally rather than just DS if you see what I mean.) I would say out of all the experts (self professed and actual) I haven’t found the strategies in How to Talk helpful at all, which is a shame as many seem to recommend it. I also haven’t found the ‘gentle parenting’ approach helpful. DS has a massive temper and can be quick to anger and calm down (it’s a lot better than it was though.) If you tried to ‘validate his feelings’ he just yells and screams at you. It’s the same if you discipline by removing a toy - it just winds him up.

So out of everything I would say I’ve had most success with the Janet Lansbury approach ‘you’re having a hard time doing X so I’m going to do Y.’ No punishment, just a matter of fact this is how it is. But it can be hard in actual situations. From this morning it’s easy to say ‘I can see you’re having a hard time not being silly with that cup so I’ll take it now.’ Harder to say ‘I can see you’re having a hard time not tipping water on your sister!’ But that is within the realms of normal annoying behaviour I would say, my brother and I still annoy one another now and we’re in our forties! What I find harder is the nasty way he can speak to me sometimes (and it is to me) the not listening (which can be frightening as well as annoying) and the starting fights.

Have you tried sending them both out to the garden and giving his sister a big jug of water to tip over him?

i think this is where parenting advice can be tricky as no … because we weren’t at home and if we had been we’d probably have needed to get out for nursery / work / activity and wouldn’t necessarily be able to do that. I have to admit I’m not sure what it would solve - to me it would be sending a message it’s OK to do that - but even so it’s not always practical.

We will survive another day. I do feel better now - family holidays with this age kids are probably always going to be tricky and DS and I are quite different, he’s more like his dad I think and even MIL admits DH was a bit of a pain as a young child!

Who’s he been with today? What’s he been doing?

playing at nursery probs..?

My deepest and sickest feeling is that if I could turn back time and only have the one child I would, in a heartbeat

well that would be your DS wouldn’t it Op?

Exactly. Absolutely mystified by the people who think this is perfectly normal and reasonable. OP’s posts strongly suggest she’s emotionally abusive to her son or will become so.