She’s not dd(11)s problem?

[juneisjuly]

Dd(11) was one of two girls from her primary to go to this secondary.
Dd and the other girl (that I’ll call Sarah) weren’t friends in primary, Sarah was basically head girl and was on occasion mean to dd eg would tell tales on her and refer to her as one of the boys excluding her from girl things.

Dd already knew other girls in secondary school from out school groups and quickly made other friends.
It’s seems Sarah hasn’t. Dd did hang out with Sarah for a while and attempt to include her with other friends at lunch and inviting out with them on a couple of occasions.
But says she finds her difficult and says she either doesn’t say anything or is really negative, none of dd’s friends like Sarah or want to include her.

After Christmas dd was called out of class and asked what was going on with her and Sarah, she explained and nothing else came from it.
Dd has never been unpleasant to sarah.

Sarah’s mum messaged me to ask if dd went out over Easter as Sarah was upset to have not done anything. I said that dd has gone out with friends and that I just don’t think her and Sarah are friends, they never were in primary and haven’t clicked now.
She’s said she’s going to have to go to the school as it’s not fair that Sarah is being excluded and the ‘primary school name’ girls should stick together.

I dont think Sarah is dds problem and that she shouldnt have to be friends with Sarah or hang out with her.

AIBU?

Your daughter was kind and suffered the consequences. It is not your daughter's responsibility to make other people happy. Outline this to the other parent and make it clear previous relentless bullying behaviour has created this problem. Tell her the reasons why and to address those issues. But you will be supporting your daughter. And if parent upset or angry ignore and like u will say stance remains the same. Contact the school and make it clear to the school what has been taking place. Good luck.

@juneisjuly One thing that could be worth saying to the school and Sarah’s mum is to ask them how they would feel if their only friend was only their friend because they are being made to by adults? There are negative consequences for both girls.

I liked how you responded to a pp about what you would do if it was your daughter in Sarah’s shoes. And that is the kind of support Sarah needs from her parents and her school.

Genuine friendships that happen organically are so good for us. Sarah just needs to find her tribe and she may need a little guidance and support to find that for herself.

And there is a big difference between being someone’s friend to being someone who is friendly and approachable. It’s ok to have healthy boundaries and be able to choose your friends.

I was coming here to say exactly this.

Women are constantly expected to push aside their own feelings/needs to accommodate others, often to their own detriment.

This is not the message we should be giving to our girls

We teach our girls and women that they have agency, and that their needs matter just as much as anyone else’s.

You can do all of that and still have empathy. Females putting their own needs last should be confined to the annals of history.

Contact the school first! Explain from your dd’s perspective.

Given how she treated your DD at primary your DD has been more than kind. I would have told mine not to bother tbh. It’s kind to include people but you can’t force friendships, I didn’t have many friends at school so I’m not saying this from a mean girl perspective. I would think the school would take the view that what kids do out of school isn’t really their problem.

Not your DDs problem.
secondary is completely different to primary, there’s a whole range of classes, set levels, schedules which enables them to interact with a range of people from different classes - there is no reason if they aren’t friendly to stick with the old primary school kids, secondary is a fresh start for most.

Not for your dd to do anything and I’d be firm with the school that Sarah has got to forge her own way.

You can't force a friendship.

That empathy needs to flow from Sarah and not be unpleasant to other DC. She is reaping what she has sown. Basic life lesson.

Ridiculous for parents to get involved with kids friendships. When DS1 was at school one particular mum, used to complain to me if my son played with another child rather than hers. It’s really pathetic. My response was yes my son is upset when your son plays with someone else too (he wasn’t) but it seemed to stop the complaints. Sounds like your DD is kind to this child but they are not friends which is fine and certainly not for the school to get involved. “Sarah” needs to make new friends, perhaps school can help with this.

Sarah was basically head girl and was on occasion mean to dd eg would tell tales on her and refer to her as one of the boys excluding her from girl things.

Dd did hang out with Sarah for a while and attempt to include her with other friends at lunch and inviting out with them on a couple of occasion. But says she finds her difficult and say s she either doesn’t say anything or is really negative, none of dd’s friends like Sarah or want to include her.

Well there's your answer Sarah's mum. Maybe the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

Has Sarah apologised to the kids she was rude to? That would be a start but I'm guessing not.

Kids make friends from a gut feeling about other kids. You can't force a friendship because it simply isn't a friendship.

Some kids go through life alienating others. Sarah most likely has learned a lesson and will learn to keep it zipped a bit going forward. Her mother arranging friendships for her like this, teaches the kid she can say and do what she wants and people will still like her for it.

i would speak to a staff member first day back and be clear your dd hasn’t done anything wrong, she is not to be forced in to a friendship by school. If Aldi remind your dd to be kind but explain she chooses who her friends are and that’s okay.

ii cant imagine a secondary school getting so involved
sarah needs to find her tribe

Sarah's problem is she was a big fish in a small pool in primary. Now she's in a much larger pool, and not as important as she was, so she is feeling lost and is lashing out at your dd as she has done before. Your dd does not need to include Sarah.

Haven't read the whole thread but I think you need to make an appointment to speak to the safeguarding lead in school. It is extremely unfair and potentially damaging (ie harmful to your dd) for the school and Sarah's mum to suggest that your dd has a responsibility for Sarah's welfare. This would be the case even if they had been friends at primary school, but is even more important as Sarah was a bully. 'Mean girl' is the current term, but it's bullying. By insisting on your dd being Sarah's friend, the adults involved are compounding the bullying. Your dd needs you to advocate for her, swiftly and firmly.

I think it's important to get ahead of this with the same message to your DD (so she knows how to put it if asked), the mum, and if need be the school.

DD and Sarah have never been friends at primary school nor since. Sarah briefly spent some time with DD plus her 3 friends at the start of year 7 but didn't gel with the group, so they didn't become friends. There are no hard feelings, but the girls don't click so they will only be acquaintances. Sarah now needs to put effort into getting to know the other 96 kids in the year group to find friends.

I’d try and jump in first with the school, the history of her not being nice but your dd trying her best but it being met with negativity. Then the being called out of class etc and the mum contacting you. Get the story straight before they get the other (possibly biased/twisted) side. Equally why is it up to others to invite Sarah out- I’d have said to the mum what was stopping Sarah calling by/texting an invite to park for picnic on x day? Can’t moan about lack of social if you aren’t proactive

Agree with all the PP that you should inform the school first.

As a primary teacher, I've had to tell some parents through the years that I won't be trying to force child x to be friends with child y. Those parents hate hearing it... They think if they shout loudly enough, they'll get what they want. Sadly, they're teaching their child that too. There's a reason that Sarah is not very likeable to your DD. Good on her for initially trying to reach out.

I'd advise on blocking mum too, as she'll unlikely stop her messages to you.

It’s tricky when parents get involved. As a Head of Year, I have had a situation where two girls moved up from the same small secondary. One wrote that she really wanted to be in the same class as the other. One that she really didn’t. One parent phoning to say please don’t put the girls together, their child needs a new start and doesn’t want anything to do with her. The class lists come out and the other parent phones up to ask why on earth the girls aren’t in the same class?

What are you supposed to do with that?

I think the mother has been unfair to ask about your DD’s holiday plans then threatening to complain to the school. Your DD doesn’t have to include every child in the year. It’s not excluding her, it’s making new friends.

If this were after the first term I might understand it, but it’s after Easter now. I think I would block the mum’s number and tell your DD not to worry about it.

Sarah's mum needs to remember it's secondary school not primary and she needs to take a step back. I can only imagine the tutor and head of year rolling their eyes at this non issue with your daughter. Sarah's mum needs to be more honest with the school - Sarah joined with a limited number of children she knew from primary, none of whom were her friends. She is now struggling to make friends as other children are already in friendship groups.
The tutor/head of year could then direct mum to the list of clubs the school runs and suggest Sarah joins in with one/some of these to help. School libraries are generally a safe zone or sometimes there is a pastoral room set up for year 7 children managed by an adult for children who are struggling.

If anything I would contact the school about Sarah and her mum saying you are concerned that Sarah's mum is trying to force a friendship that never existed. Sarah has previously bullied your child at primary school and you are now concerned that your daughter has settled well but Sarah is trying to get her into trouble.

I know you probably don’t want to be ‘that’ parent, but as the other girl’s Mum is clearly going to try and involve the school (and the school have tried to intervene already), I think you might want to be proactive yourself.

Make an appt to see your DD’s head of year and make it clear that she / the school needs to stay out of it.

Neither my DD nor DSD (in separate schools) kept the same friendship groups from Primary when they moved to Secondary. They’re friendly with some of them, but don’t hang out after school. They’ve made other friends.

Literally remind her she want bothered when it was her daughter excluding your daughter from friendship groups. She needs to encourage her daughter to find new friends.

You need to stop this in its tracks, the contact over Easter from the Mother now show you she will not let this go.

Email school, state facts, at the same primary, not friends and you could mention why. Secondary, tried to include her, didn't work. You are aware she was called out of class. The Mother has contacted you over Easter and you now hope that school would encourage Sarah to seek other friendships via clubs or whatever as your daughter does not wish to be friends with her.

You need to be proactive.