She’s not dd(11)s problem?

[juneisjuly]

Dd(11) was one of two girls from her primary to go to this secondary.
Dd and the other girl (that I’ll call Sarah) weren’t friends in primary, Sarah was basically head girl and was on occasion mean to dd eg would tell tales on her and refer to her as one of the boys excluding her from girl things.

Dd already knew other girls in secondary school from out school groups and quickly made other friends.
It’s seems Sarah hasn’t. Dd did hang out with Sarah for a while and attempt to include her with other friends at lunch and inviting out with them on a couple of occasions.
But says she finds her difficult and says she either doesn’t say anything or is really negative, none of dd’s friends like Sarah or want to include her.

After Christmas dd was called out of class and asked what was going on with her and Sarah, she explained and nothing else came from it.
Dd has never been unpleasant to sarah.

Sarah’s mum messaged me to ask if dd went out over Easter as Sarah was upset to have not done anything. I said that dd has gone out with friends and that I just don’t think her and Sarah are friends, they never were in primary and haven’t clicked now.
She’s said she’s going to have to go to the school as it’s not fair that Sarah is being excluded and the ‘primary school name’ girls should stick together.

I dont think Sarah is dds problem and that she shouldnt have to be friends with Sarah or hang out with her.

AIBU?

Sarah is being set up by her mum to be manipulative. She needs to teach her healthier ways to make friends. I do wonder though where Sarah has learned her behaviour!

We had the exact same thing happen. My DS was being forced to be friends with a boy who had no friends but my DS sort of got on with. The boy was aggressive, loud and annoying. DS's friends started excluding DS as this boy was around all the time and they didn't like him. DS was taken out of class and asked why he excluded him from his birthday party. The mum would text me and guilt trip me. The school were pairing them up for tasks and putting them on the same team all the time. If I had my time again, I would stop it sooner. It got so bad that DS lost his friends and became withdrawn and depressed. The school and the boys mum carried on trying to push the friendship. It turned into a nightmare.

This - good advice.

This.. perfect answer

Your daughter tried to include Sarah in things but for whatever reason Sarah blew it. It's not DD's responsibility to help Sarah at all. I went to a secondary school with 1 person I knew but like dd made my own choice friends. Some people just aren't likeable ...

A lot of girls seem to change friends multiple times in the first couple of years of secondary school as they get to know their new classmates. Added to this, Covid restrictions as they were growing up have prevented kids from socialising with a wide range of other children and many lack experience in social skills. My son's school are apparently going to mix the classes up every year to widen their social circles as they have noticed an increase in loneliness and friendship issues.
No child should have friendships forced upon them, they should all be encouraged to join clubs and groups where they can socialise with others with similar interests and friendships can develop more naturally.

Sarah doesn't have to be mean for her to be unsuitable as a friend. She had more in common with the primary school girls, which accidentally excluded OP's DD. Now OP's DD has more in common with their high school classmates. As a high school teacher I see this every day; it's often the unpopular primary student with outside interests who is skilled at making newer friends instead of relying on old alliances. This is unfortunately a new skill for Sarah, but a common occurrence in schools, and easily fixed with common sense. But instead of doing what OP did, encouraging out of school friendships, allowing people to choose their own friends, and teaching the skills to make friends, Sarah's mum has decided it's just way easier to pressure an 11 year old who already knows they're not a great match into being Sarah's social secretary. Sarah will learn how to make friends if the adults don't meddle and put her in groups where she won't be happy. You seem to have ignored that OP's DD is happy to include her, but however much she does that, she can't make certain people automatically like Sarah any more than she could make the primary students more friendly towards herself.

Can you not go to the school first? For one - school shouldn't have called her out of the class, so raise this issue that it has made your dd uncomfortable. And then the mother shouldn't have reached out to you as it has nothing to do with you and your dd is not deliberately excluding Sarah. Just not deliberately including her which your dd has complete freedom to do. It is not fair to make one person uncomfortable to make another one feel better. Your dd should not be subjected to this issue at all. Sarah's mother needs to understand why her daughter cannot make friends and help her with the issue.

She knows exactly how it feels, as "Sarah" deliberately treated her dd horribly at ps.

Genuinely puzzled at all this alarm over taking a child out of class. Children get taken out of class all the time for many different reasons.l in modern schooling. I took a dozen children out of their lessons during the school day today and not one of the reasons were contentious or worrying.

But this one is and it definitely is if the girl feels so. It is not about taking someone out if the class, it is about the reason that is important here.

I have seen this exact situation in posts on here and some MNer's telling the poster to "be kind"

I detect some glee in "head girl sarah" flailing a bit.

Really struggling to see the importance of that point context wise

I think OP's daughter sounds like she has been generous to Sarah considering their history.

But they don't seem to have much in common.
The school can rightly insist on coutesy and respect between pupils in their interactions with each other.......but no more
.......no child owes another child friendship if they would rather not hang out with them.
It isn't how friendship works.

Sarah's mother is entitled to think she can behave the way she has.
As a parent her behaviour would repell me and I wouldn't engage further.

I think with any allegations of exclusion and bullying, schools need to tread very carefully while they find oout exactly what is going on.

I saw in primary school some mothers be very controlling in their directing of their daughters friendships.

That doesn't work in secondary. I know that with my own girls. I may like some friends more than others, but ultimately it is my daughters decision who they like to hang out with.

Once they treat my daughters well, it is not my business to remark upon it, so I don't.

It's really not a contentious thing, someone being unhappy socially is a very common thing that schools deal with all the time. The kids are used to being spoken to about the social dynamics around them by pastoral staff and are usually glad to have their say, to see the adults taking an interest, as well as some support, because they should very much feel heard during the exchange. It's much less lonely than putting up with a peer who is being a bit of a social strain alone. Yes, of course, if OP's DD was unhappy or put out by the conversation, OP should clarify or complain with the school but all OP has said about it is "she explained and nothing else came from it." That's a perfectly reasonable and typical outcome. The pressure directly from Sarah's mother is the thing OP is balking at. As for the school; It's paid pastoral staff who will be responsible for helping solve Sarah's problem, not OP's daughter. In their shoes, I would 1) assess if it's a temporary falling out between old friends, or if the class Sarah is in is just not gelling with her, 2) Consider moving Sarah to another class, possibly one with one or two of her old friends in, 3) Encourage Sarah to join extracurricular groups at break, or after school. 4) Generally keep an eye on her. None of these things are in the power of OP's daughter, which is why it's so ridiculous Sarah's mum is putting it all on her.

OP I had this at school. A girl in my years mother decided I would be an ideal friend for her. She knew the school principal. I ended up in the same house, same tutor group. For 5 years. She would tell me we were going to be in the same class as her mother had spoken to Dr X. It was awful, I ended up absolutely hating her. My parents were English and wealthy, hers were English and weird, her Father was a GP with some very odd beliefs. The school was in Australia. I wish my mother had intervened. It really ruined school for me. It was an odd set up so within the Houses there were classes with 4 students from each year group. Don't do it, it is not your problem.

OP I'd tell DD that if school speaks to her about Sarah again, she's to tell them straight. She wasn't friends with Sarah in primary school and they aren't friends now, that Sarah was actually mean to her in primary school, but despite this she's tried to include Sarah (why FFS, she had no obligation to?). She's made new friends though and these people don't click with Sarah either.

Have her specifically say she's not excluding Sarah from anything, any more than she's excluding the rest of the school year who she isn't friends with from anything either.

You should also write to the school about this because the school are basically allowing Sarah's mum to bully your child. They're colluding in it and facilitating it. You should put a stop to that. Point out that's what they're doing. Tell them you don't want DD spoken to about Sarah or Sarah's lack of friends, because it's nothing to do with DD, as her and Sarah were never friends at all either in primary or secondary. Point out that Sarah isn't your DDs problem and DD isn't responsible for Sarah's happiness.

I was in a similar situation at school, although the other girl's parents weren't involved and the school didn't give me hassle, thank goodness! It would have made my life hell if they had. This other girl was miss popular. She was friends in primary with girls who'd bullied me. So although I had no problems with her she wasn't my friend either and didn't give me the time of day.

Then us two end up at the same secondary school and suddenly she's stuck to me like a limpet. I wasn't at all happy with this given how things were between us in primary school. She was also incredibly needy, had health issues and rather than saying anything to the teacher, would just sit and cry next to me. I hated being center of attention but would have to be the one trying to get teachers attention, and being ignored until I rudely interrupted, usually.

I got sick of it and started avoiding her like the plague. I'd dash off after class and lose myself in the crowd so she couldn't follow me, I'd hang around until she'd sat down when class started then I'd sit elsewhere. I didn't want responsibility for her and her issues, she'd never given a fuck about the bullies verbal abuse and excluding me in primary. I didn't feel I owed her anything. I wanted to make friends with people who actually liked me, not have to babysit a wet lettuce who didn't.

Stand up for your DD OP.

Good grief. Silly Sarah's mum. Not your problem and serves sarah right for being mean to your daughter. Tough poop I'd say

That’s awful, your poor son :(

I think we're on the same side here. I'm with OP. My post was a reaction to someone else's post probably taken out of context.

'dd has already been called out of class once, I don’t want her to be made out to be the bad guy'

There's obviously more to this, teachers don't call kids oit of class just to discuss friendships.

I'd arrange to speak to someone at school and get the full story.

I can understand a mum being concerned about their child and whether they are making friends in secondary, but Sarah's mum has gone about this all wrong.

Some parents are so focused on their own child, combined with poor self awareness, a touch of entitlement, and you have a parent like Sarah's mum thinking she can dictate what another child does during their school holidays.

That she would text OP, a parent of a child she was never historically friendly with is hugely presumptuous.

I remember getting a text from a mum telling me that she was only allowing her son to attend a concert with their large group of friends because my son was going and would look after him.

She meant regarding drinking, which her son was fond of ( my son liked a couple of beers too)

I text her back that she should rethink that plan because my sons priority was himself and not babysitting anyone else, and I would be making that very clear to him.

I told my son under ANY circumstances he was not to be buying any alcohol for her son who was just under 18, as he would have me to deal with.
He was being appointed minder 2 hours away from home at a concert in another city.

I very rarely put my foot down so he knew not to mess with me.
Of course they look after each when out, but absolutely no way was any parent going to be formalising that responsibility onto my child just because she decided it suits her.

My son went straight back to him and told him what his mother had done and what I had made crystal clear to him. He told him he wouldn't be buying him any drink while they were away.

Absolutely take care of each other but I am very firm with my children that there is a difference between looking out for each other, to becoming friends minder while they get drunk every night, secure in the knowledge their friends will mind them.

One of my daughters pulled a bit back from two friends as this happened once too often and my daughters night out was being completely spoiled. Fortunately after a few nights of her telling them she would see them there later got the message across that she was no longer up for it.

Being pulled out of class is not done casually in our schools so it would raise a question from friends.

Fortunately the teachers in our schools are all over bullying, but know better than to be insensitive by calling out very young children out to be spoken to.

The average 11 year old could feel quite intimidated by being called out like that, far more than a much older teen would.