Trans protest- sharing for balance

[Tandora]

There’s a thread sharing some really awful images from the protest, so I wanted to share some positive ones for the sake of some perspective/ balance.
A lot of people are really understandably incredibly angry and overwhelmed by the events of the last few days. But most people who support trans rights absolutely don’t condone fighting oppression and injustice with misogyny.

It wasn’t based on a sample. It is based on the whole population - the census. The ‘trans’ question was agreed/pushed by trans lobbyists. However the ONS has had to put a caution on the outcome because it was misunderstood by other groups and OVER estimated the number of trans people (this was pointed out to them in advance but ignored in favour of trans activists). Of course, as this number is now recognised as an overestimate of the trans population this means the risk of men who identify as trans being sex offenders is even greater than was first indicated at over four times greater than other men.

Ah yes, the ‘simple cheek swab’—because nothing says ‘women’s rights’ like mandatory DNA testing to access basic public spaces.

1. Chromosomal tests are scientifically useless here.

- Intersex people (1.7% of the population) exist. XXY, XXX, and other variations mean chromosomes don’t fit your binary. - Even XX women can have naturally high testosterone (common in Black/POC athletes). Should we ban them too?

1. Your ‘goodwill argument is laughable.

- Predatory men don’t follow ‘declarations’—they break laws. Meanwhile, trans women (who’ve lived as women for years) are harassed over a 1% edge case. - If safety were the goal, we’d focus on actual threats (cis male violence), not policing minorities.

1. Provable scientific fact’?

- Science shows trans women’s hormone levels match cis women’s post-transition. Brain studies confirm gender identity is biological. - Your ‘facts’ cherry-pick biology while ignoring its complexity.

Stop pretending this is about safety. It’s about excluding trans people—and your ‘solutions’ would harm far more cis women (especially minorities) than they’d ever ‘protect.’

Given that there’s 50+ “genders”, how’s that gonna work @Tandora Public loos gonna be massive!

You agree that medical services are one area where TW need to seek out sex-specific treatments - try telling that to Dr Victor Acharian - a gynaecologist struck off for refusing to treat a TW/man. This is why people are cautious about the agendas of many TW and their supporters. Deliberately setting out to cause drama and damage to others.

Where do you stand on this @Tandora ?

https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/15/a-cavity-is-not-a-vagina-trans-woman-refused-healthcare-in-france

The judgement has been widely interpreted (on both sides) as effectively banning trans women from all spaces designated for women, and declaring that instead they must used those associated with their biological sex . This is what has incited these protests.

This is the ruling of the Supreme Court regarding safe spaces for biological women under the Equaliy Act

Transgenders have the right to protest but it'll be more effective to protest for safe transgender spaces like toilets (opening unisex ones is an idea) than trying to keep accessing female ones.

Yes, the irony is that the argument is "We're not a danger to you and if you don't agree with us, we'll assault/kill you!"

I love science, and facts, and appreciate your challenge.

I followed the links in the graph I posted, and agree that I couldn't make the link from those alone.

This is what I did find. I don't think either help your position, but I remain open to a discussion:

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/government-figures-70-per-cent-of-transgender-prisoners-are/

Maybe, because people with any sort of paraphalia have a greater risk of sexual offending (particularly cross-dressing in thisccase) and that often cited figures from prison include men who have chosen to identify as women to benefit from the system rather than because of gender dysphoria. It may also be because transwomen are less likely to commit other crimes than cismen.

The evidence for transwomen's rate of sexual offending is pretty thin, there simply aren't enough studies with enough data to come to a definitive conclusion. From 14% greater in US prisons to double here. For men in general however, it's pretty clear.

If it were actually the case that transwomen were as likely to commit sexual offences as is often suggested on here, then it isn't just women's spaces they should be kept out of, it should be any spaces where women are.

Can you link to what you posted?

If not why are you referring to or attempting to rely on something which may or may not exist?

Verifying sex is about sport, not public spaces. Protecting the integrity of physical competition by verifying the boundaries around it is reasonable.

And again for the cheap seats at the back -

Even before the ruling, TW are not allowed in women's single-sex spaces, something many, including India Willoughby, Robin Moira White and others always ignored. The protests are because biological sex has been enshrined in law, not gender.

It's really not that difficult to grasp. Maybe read this

Judging by your performance so far, you could simplify your second sentence to, “I do not have [any] understanding [of the issues]”.

The life of a trans person matters.
The well being of a trans person matters.
I want trans people, like all people to be free to be as they wish without fear, harassment or distress.

I don't want biological males in female spaces
I don't want the rights and achievements of women in multiple spheres trampled to nothing by men who want to be women
I don't want people losing their jobs or having lives threatened for stating biological facts

Waving stupid placards like trans lives matters is an extension of the insidious collective gaslighting.

The actual real issues we have with accomodating trans women as if they are biological women is nothing to do with our views regarding rights of trans people to exist or just ' be' in peace.

Oh hang on, I missed this part - are we now saying that gender identity IS about female brains? Because earlier we were assured nobody is saying that.

Can you say for certain the commonality between women and trans women?

I was actually horrified by @Tandora 's reference to 'apartheid'.

The purpose of apartheid/segregation was to ensure the continuing disadvantage of an underprivileged group and deny them full citizenship or participation in society, thereby upholding privilege. That has absolutely nothing in common with the provision a facility or space dedicated exclusively to a vulnerable and underprivileged group - such as women's safe spaces. To call the latter 'apartheid' is so deeply offensive, and not even only to women.

By that logic, calling biological women cis women denies and erases women.

I thought your argument was that trans people want to live as men/women but here you say the goal is for them to live as trans people - nobody is stopping them from doing that.

What does the politically independent Supreme Court upholding women's sex based rights in the equality legislation enacted by the last Labour government have to do with fascism, or Trump, @Tandora?

Can you share the link to these studies, please?

As I posted before (but @Tandora chose not to reply), I can't see how my body (periods, pregnancy, birth, hysterectomy, menopause etc) is the same as a transwoman's, and one of the transwomen posters on here agrees with me.

It all feels very Alice in Wonderland to insist that two clearly different things are the same.

Well millions of us and the judges disagree with you

Intersex people exist (1.7% of the population—same as redheads),

0.018%

How common is intersex? a response to Anne Fausto-Sterling - PubMed

Just this

It also tries to make women analogous to white people and therefore the group that holds systemic power. Absolutely batshit.

Chromosomal tests are scientifically useless here.
- Intersex people (1.7% of the population) exist. XXY, XXX, and other variations mean chromosomes don’t fit your binary. - Even XX women can have naturally high testosterone (common in Black/POC athletes). Should we ban them too?

Genes on chromosomes determine sex in humans, they don’t define it. Sex is defined across all species by the presence of large immobile gametes and small motile gametes. There are no other gametes so sex is binary. ’Intersex’ or more correctly disorders of sexual development, are sex specific. XXY are male, XXX are female. Cheek swabs don’t need to just test karyotype, they can test genotype too identifying DSDs. Women with high testosterone (ignoring your racis5 comment for now) still do not have testosterone levels anywhere near those of men.

tandora writes many posts but never answers difficult questions.

I wanted the OP to answer.