Suicide rates and being spoken out of existence

[crunchynuts12345]

A lot of transwomen / people unfortunately won't survive this. Feeling like you're being legislated or spoken out of existence, especially when you're already part of a group at such high risk for mental health struggles and suicide, is devastating. It’s not just policy or rhetoric — it’s lived impact. Much like the way the awful section 28 law impacted gays - every time identity is debated like it’s theoretical or optional, it chips away at a person's sense of worth. It's so sad. You’re not welcome, not valid, not safe — can hit deep

@mswales ‘am devastated by this ruling’

Why?

A responsible qualified therapist should know better than to make alarmist online posts about suicide. This is an irresponsible, emotive and coercive thread. It's designed to spread fear and trying make women feel guilty and responsible for a group of people who need to take responsibility for their own decisions.

Just another crude attempt to silence women from speaking about our legitimate rights

Never mind as a counsellor, just as a woman - can you understand why we don’t want men in our spaces?

The vitriol against women who only want their legal rights to single sex places is awful.

You go on about empathy OP, but there was precious little empathy from certain quarters when my friend, a rape survivor who always requests female HCPs, was faced with a bearded person with a bulging crotch when she went for a smear, to be told this person was a Trans woman and made to feel, by the clinic, that she was bigoted when she ran out.

She spent weeks feeling she wasn’t kind enough, worrying that she was transphobic, etc. And almost never went back for a smear at all.

Stiff competition for the ball-carrying prize this evening but you are a worthy contender. Er, congrats?

Well on one hand we have the possibility that very masculine looking women may need to reassure women in women's spaces

and on the other we have women being assaulted and raped on hospital wards and in prisons, forced to submit to strip searches by male police officers if they identify as women, being threatened with withdrawal of care or worse if they point out that the 'same sex health care worker' who has arrived is actually a man, lesbian women being harassed and unable to meet without men who are advising them about their duty to 'learn to cope' with PIV sex and that the 'mouth feel' of their dick will be nothing like a man's dick so they need to get over themselves and their sexuality, things like that.

Which do you think is worse?

OP, you say 'every time identity is debated'...

Thing is, a biological male cannot actually become biological female, but that's what we were in many cases being asked to believe. These issues require debate because there are inevitably nuances around what we are being asked to accept. If it is that trans-identifying people be given human dignity and freedom from discrimination for being trans, then that is fine. But if by 'accepting identity' we are actually being asked to act as if there are no functional differences between biological women and men who feel they have a female identity, then this is quite clearly something different. We cannot parse these issues without debate, and to say otherwise is to try to bully people.

So transwomen can dish out hate, fear and scapegoating towards women but are so terrified of the same happening to them that they threaten suicide. Seriously.

And how are ‘butch and masculine presenting lesbians’ going to be harmed exactly?

If you actually are a therapist, OP, then you should be supporting your trans clients to cope with reality rather than encouraging them to feel suicidal because they can’t use single-sex spaces. Many people have to cope with adversity, with the world not being exactly as they want it. We can’t make the world exactly how everyone wants it to be.

It must be awful feeling like you were born in the wrong body and as far as I’m concerned trans people can use whatever names they like and dress however they want. But that doesn’t override the rights of women to have single-sex spaces.

You and your daughter are put at vastly higher risk if you share a bathroom with males.

90% of sexual assaults in changing facilities are perpetrated in mixed sex facilities, whereas only 10% take place in single sex spaces.

99% of sex offences are carried out by males, and statistics suggest that those who are trans identified are MORE likely to offend than those without a trans identity.

Still happy to have them in with you?

Actually what drives self harm & suicide is it being promoted like this.
Trans people are told they have to feel suicidal & feel the struggle in order to 'belong'

Have a look at actual scientific research eg by Prof Louis Appleby.

There is nothing in the SC judgement that would increase the suicide rate for any group of people.

The mental health condition with the highest rate of completed suicide is EUPD/c-PTSD. The overwhelming majority of this group are biological women who the majority of the time have been abused by biological males.

This is what vitriol looks like OP

https://terfisaslur.com/

This.

Try being reduced to a 'person with a cervix' whilst still having to deal with all the patriarchical shite that comes along with being an adult human female.

I literally created a whole fucking human out a teaspoon of a jelly like substance (twice) and I constantly feel like I get treated worse by society because of it.

I'll fight to the death until that is respected and my daughter can use a public toilet without some nonce hiding behind being trans can pop in to SA her. As if we don't have enough places to be scared of being a pawn for male wants and depraved fantasy.

I'm deeply concerned about their decision to invite trans men into the women's toilets. All it means is that I'm now silenced if I see a huge muscled bearded man in the toilets.

And it's fascinating to see how we were all supposed to kowtow to their preferences, but women worried about this all supposed to shut up about our fears.

You see all the same familiar names on these threads honking on like angry geese. Where's the anger about making other women feel scared of random men just wandering into the toilets?

ah the hyperbole strikes again.

OP in a relationship if one partner says "don't do that, i will kill myself" it is rightly seen as abusive.

And for people who may already be teetering on the brink (without cause if it is related to the Supreme Court's statement) your ill advised post may push them over.

It is not appropriate to make posts like this and i believe the thread should not stand.

Just show me the campaigns by trans people for safe spaces fpt them. The campaigns against discrimination because they've lost their job or been refused service in a shop or been denied healthcare or evicted for being trans.

Because what I see is a bunch of aggressive men stopping women meeting together because the men in dresses are not allowed be in those meetings. I see men threatening suicide if they're not allowed in those spaces. In my experience those who threaten suicide are manipulators who use the threat as emotional blackmail.

Women fought, campaigned and paid for single sex spaces and men claiming to be women have taken them for themselves.

When those men start campaigning for their own spaces and against discrimination for being trans, like being sacked or denied service, I will join them in their campaigning. But actually they only ever campaign to take away the things we have fought for, not to gain things they have fought for.

I just watched the march today in London. I am glad they felt safe to go and represent their view. Some even brought their children.

Women haven’t felt safe to do that. I would never dream of taking my children to a march on this topic. Women and men have been attacked and physically harmed over this.

So what does say? Who really are the ones at risk and marginalised.

And yes my mental health has also taken a toll from this. I was very active in the early days. I had to step back and pass the baton. Very grateful to the women who carried it forward. 🥰

I hope trans people struggling with this verdict can get mental health support and make peace with the process. A balance will be found which supports everyone.

Most therapists and psychologists I know are gender critical, and want to provide support for the women terrified and devastated by the numbers of women being fired for being feminists, by not being able to express themselves for fear of attack or losing their livelihoods, retraumatised by the intensity and speed of stipping back women's rights...but they can't, because, like most women who are afraid to speak, they too have children to feed and face losing their livelihoods if anyone finds out they believe gender distinctions are sexist social constructs.

@crunchynuts12345 but why should we ? I don’t care about trans women’s lived experiences. The ones I have met recently don’t stop banging on about their experiences, I’d like them to sit quiet like in the corner and STFU. I have had to keep my opinion to myself for the last ten years, now it is their turn.

‘just asking that we speak to individuals about their lived experience if we get the opportunity as the trans community will be feeling like shit right now.’

why are they special? Why do we have to care? Just try to pass and use the men’s. Job done.

The hypocrisy of a pp saying "I am a biological woman" to clarify that she is female because she considers it relevant, posting to say that a law protecting equality for female people should not have been allowed to clarify that they are female because it's considered relevant to enacting that law, is quite something.

I used that term specifically for the audience on this thread. I would never ever refer to myself as a biological woman in the real world. I would say cis woman but I'm well aware of what reaction that would provoke on here!

Just “I’m a woman” is fine, @mswales,there’s only the biological kind, as the Supreme Court ruled.

I’m sure the women you ‘supported’ in rape crisis/refuges felt really comforted by the fact that you regarded their requirements for female only support groups as akin to ‘racists’.

Did you ever consider you might have been in the wrong job? Will you ever find out how many raped women self excluded from essential support because of your mindblowingly anti women attitude?