Suicide rates and being spoken out of existence

[crunchynuts12345]

A lot of transwomen / people unfortunately won't survive this. Feeling like you're being legislated or spoken out of existence, especially when you're already part of a group at such high risk for mental health struggles and suicide, is devastating. It’s not just policy or rhetoric — it’s lived impact. Much like the way the awful section 28 law impacted gays - every time identity is debated like it’s theoretical or optional, it chips away at a person's sense of worth. It's so sad. You’re not welcome, not valid, not safe — can hit deep

Why is this now women's problem? If someone is suicidal they need professional help not all of womenkind doing everything they say. I don't like this forced allyship. If someone genuinely cares about the rights of transpersons, and their welfare, great, but I think it shouldn't become a stick with which to beat women.

You can't force someone to be an ally. That's a stupid as a parent forcing their child to be friend with someone they don't enjoy hanging around and have nothing in common with . We have to be an ally to transwomen why? It's enough to not be transphobic. Being kind and decent is enough.

Not a single suicide has actually occurred because someone has refused a transwoman a place at a women's refuge or similar.It hasn't happened. If it did it would not be because of their gender identity . It would be because sadly there aren't enough shelters for abused men. I would happily support more being built for male victims.

I haven't heard of anyone ending their lives because of not being allowed to use a women's wing in a Hospital or prison either.

The news would be all over it if this were the case.

Another plus about the Scottish football decision is that other sports will be given more confidence to follow suit.

They can use the bathrooms designated for their sex just like everybody else.

Why should they get extra 'rights' that no one else has?

@Sabire9 I'm sure the transwomen will be just fine. They have always existed and we didn't have issues with them needing women's spaces until recently.

They will adjust back to the way things used to be in the past. They won't be entitled to use disabled bathrooms just because they're trans anyway. It won't happen.

Really, facing arrest?! Says who? For what crime? They might be asked to leave. But the SC decision really isn’t going to be the cause of either of those. Have you actually read the judgment? All of it? If not, I suggest you do and if you still believe what you are saying, find a competent lawyer to explain it to you. Shouting something hysterically as you are doing here has zero impact on whether it is true. Stronger feelings about something do not make that thing more true.

The whole - overblown by both sides - toilet debate affects me personally not a jot. For a very small minority of women the impact of the risk of trans women in a public toilet will be catastrophic, just as not being able to use them will be catastrophic for a small number of trans people who are themselves a small group anyway. So I can’t care too much about that either way, only to say that where there’s no clear answer - as there is in a case of two groups having rights that cannot both be fulfilled - I’m in favour of maintaining the status quo.

What hugely affects me - and every other person on the planet - and about which I am very concerned is the wholesale attempt to ignore and erase biology. I am in favour of facts. They should triumph over individual hopes and wishes in every circumstance. So yes, transwomen wandering around thinking they are women, and trying to insist everyone else thinks that too has a huge effect on me. As I have said numerous times, I’m happy to play along, use preferred pronouns and, just for me, don’t mind sharing my space. But transwomen are not women, scientifically at the very least.

What also affects me is the vile use of TERF to describe people who have largely been polite but just happen to disagree with you. Grow up, and if you can’t do that fuck off back to whatever echo chamber you came from, where everyone agrees with you. Name calling has no place in healthy debate. And the use of TERF is indeed vile.

It's hardly fair to complain that men will need to use what they may perceive as mixed sex, unsafe and undignified spaces, when those same men (and their supporters) have expected women to do exactly this, and been wholly intolerant of any complaints or reasons why this doesn't work for them.

Are women somehow tougher than men? Or just less important?

Women with difficulties in using mixed sex spaces - many more in number since they're half the population than men who will be affected - did a combination of on the spot risk assessing as to who was there at the time, went with someone else, found an alternative place to use, or just went without provision. And were called names (as demonstrated) if they mentioned this being an issue for them.
And no one was mentioning in law that third spaces would now be forthcoming as the needed provision; they were just expected to permanently go without and shut up.

So I don't understand why you feel women should sympathise.

I'm fairly sure the women who were raped on the hospital wards and in prisons,the women who lost all facilities, the women who couldn't access support with rapes or go to refuges or use changing rooms and pools and toilets were probably a bit depressed too, don't you think? In fact many of us are still really quite depressed at discovering how little the impact on women matters to many when compared to the potential sadness of a man.

So was I 👍👍

One man on the pitch impacts all the women in both teams so if you add it up over a season that’s quite a few.

Nothing has been erased and the legal position of trans identified people remains as it was before the ruling. Unfortunately some people believed Stonewall and other actors who said self-ID existed (it doesn't) and that transwomen were allowed into women's single sex spaces, groups, sports etc and women could not stop them entering - this was not true and was not the law.
I am (quite) sorry for people who might be upset by the ruling but little notice or sympathy has been given to women who saw their spaces, sports and the language they use about their physical experiences being taken away. We have them back and it has cost time, money and sometimes lives simply to have stated what was the legal position anyway.
The suicide risk for trans people is no greater than for anyone else - the data saying it is is based on a minute self-selected sample of trans people and so is not proven. I am sorry for anyone who feels depressed but they need to seek help and counselling - I wish that my brother had.

Sabire9 · Yesterday 17:28

I was referring to transgender women.

Yes, we all understand that you were referring to men, no need to explain.