Suicide rates and being spoken out of existence

[crunchynuts12345]

A lot of transwomen / people unfortunately won't survive this. Feeling like you're being legislated or spoken out of existence, especially when you're already part of a group at such high risk for mental health struggles and suicide, is devastating. It’s not just policy or rhetoric — it’s lived impact. Much like the way the awful section 28 law impacted gays - every time identity is debated like it’s theoretical or optional, it chips away at a person's sense of worth. It's so sad. You’re not welcome, not valid, not safe — can hit deep

@Serencwtch Just like Section 28, the law massively lags behind lived experience. And just like then, the justification is “protecting children.” Section 28 claimed it was about shielding young people, but all it really did was silence and isolate queer kids.
How many children were actually protected by being forbidden to even hear the word “gay” in school? And now, decades later, we’re watching the same narrative recycled only this time it’s trans women being cast as the threat.
So here’s the real question: How many children have been protected by the idea that trans women are dangerous in public toilets? And how many have been harmed by the fear, shame, and stigma those claims create?
Fear has never been a good foundation for safeguarding. But it’s always been a very effective tool for spreading hate and division

@NineLivesKatSo in your view, therapy should be more directive? Less about listening to someone’s lived experience, and more about telling them to "toughen up" and get on with it? That's not really how therapy works.

That’s not what I said. Part of therapy is surely helping people come to terms with things they wish could be different, whether that’s a different childhood or family or whatever.

@MrsOvertonsWindow with respect, you’ve completely misunderstood both the post and the role of a therapist.
Discussing the mental health impacts of exclusion, stigma, and systemic hostility particularly on a group already at higher risk of suicide is not "alarmist." It’s an evidence-based concern and one that any responsible therapist should be paying close attention to.
Nobody here is trying to silence women or erase anyone’s rights. But pointing out the real-world consequences of a narrative doesn’t make it coercive it makes it accountable.
You’re right that everyone needs to take responsibility for their own decisions. But that includes recognising when your speech or activism contributes to harm, whether that was your intent or not.
If you can’t even acknowledge that trans people are at a much higher risk of dying from suicide because it's inconvenient then there's a disowning of truth which is quite disturbing.

If you can’t even acknowledge that trans people are at a much higher risk of dying from suicide because it's inconvenient then there's a disowning of truth which is quite disturbing

They're not though.

Well if ‘Katie’ Dolotowski hadn’t been allowed into the ladies toilets by his social worker (required to escort him for bail conditions from a previous sex offence) there’s one little girl who wouldn’t have been pushed into a cubicle and had her trousers pulled down by him, been threatened with a knife and for her mother to be killed if she said anything.

That entirely preventable sexual assault is a direct result of a ‘trans inclusive’ policy. Do you care about that little girl at all? A teeny bit? What about when she wants a female only therapy session?

Will you call her out as being a bigot akin to a racist??

She would now be protected (well if the social workers/councils can be persuaded to update their policies obviously) by the SC ruling. Surely that’s a good thing?

Let’s see the stats then @crunchynuts12345

More DARVO.
The real world consequences of your preferred outcome are women no longer having single sex exclusions for a proportionate purpose- so men in women’s prisons, men strip searching women and women officers being forced to strip search men, women unable to access toilets and rape crisis services, same sex intimate carers.

Real world consequences that have already been happening and that we are trying to prevent continuing.

But I forget, that isn’t your interest. You only care about ’special identity’ people.

Is that what you advise your trans clients about women who campaign for women’s rights?

@spannasaurus @Ereshkigalangcleg I wonder if you're open to reading stats? It doesn't really sound like it, it sounds like being right is more important to you.

Can you provide a link to them please

I’m pretty sure I’m aware of what the stats are.

Just want to see what you’re basing your claims on.

1. Testa, R. J., Michaels, M. S., Bliss, W., Rogers, M. L., Balsam, K. F., & Joiner, T. (2017).
Suicidal ideation in transgender people: Gender minority stress and interpersonal theory factors.
Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 126(1), 125–136.
This study examines the high rates of suicidal ideation among transgender and gender nonconforming individuals, analyzing factors from the gender minority stress and resilience model and the interpersonal-psychological theory of suicide. The research highlights how both external stressors (e.g., discrimination, victimization) and internal stressors (e.g., internalized transphobia) contribute to suicidal ideation in this population.

From the book 'Relationally Queer' Edited by Dominic Davies and Silva Neves

It’s nothing of the sort. It’s not about “trans”.

It is about women’s rights. Women’s rights to be considered a class of people in our own right. Women’s rights to spaces free from men when we require safety, privacy and dignity. Women’s rights to campaign for ourselves and have our unique connecting experiences recognised in society and protected in law and policy making. Hope this helps.

What are the numbers? You’ve linked to screenshots. Can you make it clear what the “high suicide rates” are please. Preferably in comparison with male and female comparators. Men are the most likely to commit suicide.

This.

That article makes a claim about high suicide rates but cites a study about suicidal ideation not rates of suicide

As I suspected it would.

I take it you’re aware that suicidal ideation is not the same as suicide - being a therapist I’m guessing you are?

2017 is 8 years ago - the cohort has changed significantly since then - are you also aware of that?

What about the more recent research that showed suicide was higher among people who had ‘transitioned’ - some because they realised that surgery had permanently wrecked their bodies as they’d been sold a lie and some because they realised their mental health problems remained and ‘transition’ was not the answer?

You seem to have accidentally missed that in your extensive research.

It seems that reading comprehension is not a strong point for many trans activists.

“Nobody here is trying to silence women or erase anyone’s rights. But pointing out the real-world consequences of a narrative doesn’t make it coercive it makes it accountable.”

Gosh. Really nice bit of gaslighting there.

Yes, trying to imply that women discussing their needs and campaigning for their needs makes some people is responsible for poor mental health and suicide is indeed coercive.

Here's a link to the Samaritans - an organisation who understand issues relating to suicide and are concerned that irresponsible commentators in the media don't weaponise it in order to promote their own political / personal viewpoints.

https://www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/media-guidelines/10-top-tips-reporting-suicide/

I'm not going to bump a thread like this any further other but will reiterate that to see someone who claims to be a "therapist" posting such an inaccurate and emotive thread about suicide says an awful lot about the dire state of therapy currently being inflicted on the vulnerable in society.

I think the way the judgement is being reported and interpreted has a lot to answer for in terms of creating panic and uncertainty.

Some trans organisations are being responsible and thinking about how the judgement may make trans people feel.

For example, the Gendered Intelligence response was very good, I thought.

Unfortunately the way it's being portrayed in other places would make you think trans people no longer have any legal rights or status. Which is really irresponsible.

I'm not a researcher—I'm a therapist who works directly with LGBT+ people. So while I absolutely value data, I prioritise lived experience in the room. And honestly, you’d have to be wilfully blind not to see that minority stress and feeling unsafe or erased in your society would take a massive toll on someone’s mental health.
If LGB people who have finally been accepted,( although that government lag was years behind) already have double the suicide mortality rate compared to heterosexual individuals, just imagine what that means for trans people?

(Source: Office for National Statistics, UK)

https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/resources/NTDS_Report.pdf

1. Exceptionally High Rates of Suicide Attempts

• 41% of transgender and gender non-conforming respondents reported a lifetime suicide attempt, nearly nine times the general U.S. population rate of 4.6%.
• This figure also exceeds the 10–20% reported by LGB (non-trans) adults.
• Trans men (46%) and trans women (42%) reported the highest rates, compared to 21% among male-assigned cross-dressers.

1. Risk Factors Associated with Suicide Attempts

The survey identified a strong link between external adversity and suicide risk. Notably:

• Family rejection: 57% attempted suicide when family refused contact.
• School bullying: 50–54% attempt rate among those harassed at school.
• Workplace discrimination: 50–59% attempt rate.
• Healthcare discrimination: 60% attempt rate when care was denied.
• Law enforcement violence: Up to 70% attempt rate among those abused by police.
• Homelessness: 69% attempt rate.
• Physical/sexual violence at school or work: 63–78% attempt rate.