Suicide rates and being spoken out of existence

[crunchynuts12345]

A lot of transwomen / people unfortunately won't survive this. Feeling like you're being legislated or spoken out of existence, especially when you're already part of a group at such high risk for mental health struggles and suicide, is devastating. It’s not just policy or rhetoric — it’s lived impact. Much like the way the awful section 28 law impacted gays - every time identity is debated like it’s theoretical or optional, it chips away at a person's sense of worth. It's so sad. You’re not welcome, not valid, not safe — can hit deep

crunchynuts12345 · Yesterday 22:33

I'm not a researcher—I'm a therapist who works directly with LGBT+ people. So while I absolutely value data, I prioritise lived experience in the room.

So in other words, real, useful statistics take a poor back seat to anecdata, anecdata, anecdata. And you introduce a poorly conducted study, by a highly partisan group, with a small number of self selected people.

Who didn't commit suicide, but somehow, you expect us to believe that many of them did.

Forgive me if I can't take you seriously.

The problem is, though, that the 'angry transwomen' were the ones being listened to. By government, by businesses, by organisations, by the bloody NHS of all places whose very.purpose relies on knowing the difference between men and women in order to treat people appropriately. And yet they have allowed people to self identify their sex.

There have been old skool transsexuals.who have posted on here sharing the same concerns as women (and fully recognising they are male) who were worried about being collateral damage in this. Because they also knew the truth. And, sadly for them, that has come to fruition. Some of them tried speaking up over the years but were called bigots and 'terfs' and excluded from the shiny new trans community because they had diagnoses of gender dysphoria. A diagnosis was not only no longer a requirement but seen as problematic because so few of the new transcommunity would have ever been diagnosed. The Stonewall trans umbrella included everyone from autogynophiles/transvestites to those who.just didn't fully comply with gender stereotypes and they didn't want to be scrutinised too closely. People/men believed that, if they just shouted loudly enough and threatened violence often enough, people would acquiesce to appease them and, for far too long, they did.

The law hasn't changed. No one will be required to dress in a particular way - men who want to wear dresses.(for whatever reason) will still be able to. The law has just been clarified for those who didn't bother looking into it too closely themselves.and just went along with appeasing the men.

They certainly haven't been written out of existence - they've been out damaging statues, throwing piss around and threarening women (as per usual) - we're all still perfectly well aware that they exist!

We're just no longer required to pretend they are indistinguishable from us.

No as a white woman, you cannot identify as a Black woman. That would be offensive and trivialise a minority identity shaped by generations of oppression.

Okay let's rephrase this ..

No as a man, you cannot identify as a woman. That would be offensive and trivialise a minority identity shaped by generations of oppression.

Have you got it now?

@TheKeatingFive👏

I'm not reading the other responses because I know many of them will be cruel.

I honestly think anyone who has feelings of acceptance, love and compassion for transgender people should be aware that when they post about this issue on. mumsnet they're going to find themself reading posts from individuals who genuinely want transgender people not to exist, who see all transgender women as a walking insult, a material threat and an affront to womanhood.

Any thread on this subject should come with a trigger warning, like threads about disability, obesity, poverty or immigration. The hate is palpable and pretty upsetting.

You’re not reading the responses because it’s clear no one has posted what you’re claiming.

I honestly think anyone who has feelings of acceptance, love and compassion for transgender people should be aware that when they post about this issue on. mumsnet they're going to find themself reading posts from individuals who genuinely want transgender people not to exist, who see all transgender women as a walking insult, a material threat and an affront to womanhood.

Look, this is just total nonsense. Enough with all the hyperbole and silliness, around people 'not existing' 🙄

The vast majority on here want transpeople to be healthy and happy, get the support they deserve and be free from discrimination.

But equally, men can't become women, that's just fact. Everyone needs to respect basic scientific facts, respect women and their rights. It's not okay for men to access women's spaces, either legally or morally.

If transpeople need third spaces, then so be it, I doubt anyone is against that.

This, with bells on.

Strawman argument and what-aboutery.

“There are many reasons why single sex spaces are important to women.”

Indeed and we don’t have to justify them to men.

Yes, @crunchynuts12345 . It has been well documented that it is not true. Why do you lie?

But is doesn't say that their suicide rates are higher than for others. Like for instance for women who have been abused.

The pp doesn’t seem to have the actual suicide statistics that they are basing their claim on.

People like that never do.

Sabire9 · Today 10:34

I'm not reading the other responses because I know many of them will be cruel.

So, you've read on Blue Sky and Reddit that MN is a transphobic hate site and that all the witches want to march transw off to death camps. Rather than read through the posts and form a reasoned opinion of your own, you decided to plop an anguished piece of purple prose.

OK.

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 11:52

The pp doesn’t seem to have the actual suicide statistics that they are basing their claim on.

I know, right? It's a complete mystery to me, as to why these types, with their boundless knowledge and constant references to statistics never seem to post any, apart from ones which disagree with them, or say something unrelated.

Well said!

My understanding is that suicidal ideation remains constant following transition too. So not the panacea that it's claimed it is.

In many cases, it is highly troubled people looking for an/any explanation.

Or women who have undiagnosed neurodivergence....

It most certainly does show that severe mental health continues or reestablishes after treatment. It has been well written about. Because those who experienced treatment euphoria initially then start to become aware that the treatment has not made them feel better at all for many reasons, too often they feel worse than previously.

There is little evidence (haven't checked for a while) that has shown that the long time mental health of those undergoing hormone or surgical treatment is improved.

There was one from a team from Yale and Sweden, Branstrom and Pachankis

There is this study that had to be corrected because they drew a conclusion that the data did not evidence.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31581798/

Reduction in Mental Health Treatment Utilization Among Transgender Individuals After Gender-Affirming Surgeries: A Total Population Study
Branstrom & Pachankis (Aug 2020)

Pachankis is a professor from Yale, and was caught out drawing conclusions where the evidence was so weak they had to retract.

So, still nothing?

I think it is so irresponsible that a therapist would talk of suicide as if suicide ideation figures = suicides.

It’s a huge problem that almost anyone can set themselves up as a ‘therapist’ these days. Makes me worry about vulnerable people being exploited.

Indeed.

It is disappointing this thread was allowed to stand.
We know that threats of suicide, or mention of suicide can be regarded as abusive and coercive in many cases.

I am deeply sympathetic to anyone whose personal life is giving them dark thoughts along the lines of ending it. Loss of job, status, and bullying can also lead to thoughts like that.

Exactly.

@crunchynuts12345 YABVVVVVVU

trans people do exist. It's just that biological sex matters.

So much time snd energy is spent on a very tiny group who seem to always be unhappy with themselves.