Suicide rates and being spoken out of existence

[crunchynuts12345]

A lot of transwomen / people unfortunately won't survive this. Feeling like you're being legislated or spoken out of existence, especially when you're already part of a group at such high risk for mental health struggles and suicide, is devastating. It’s not just policy or rhetoric — it’s lived impact. Much like the way the awful section 28 law impacted gays - every time identity is debated like it’s theoretical or optional, it chips away at a person's sense of worth. It's so sad. You’re not welcome, not valid, not safe — can hit deep

A brief, technical point. If they feel anything like what you are suggesting, they should feel like they are being interpreted out of existence, because Courts don’t legislate - they interpret legislation and common law.

Perhaps if you placed greater weight on these sorts of accuracies you might be less disappointed by the interpretation the SC has given. Because most of us knew what it was. Also, no one is being written out of existence. They have just been told that the law is - and has always been - what they wished it wasn’t.

Surely this thread would be unethical for any professional to post. The misinformation that keeps coming is deeply concerning.

I interviewed one for a job. It still doesn’t mean I want to share the a female only space with him. I don’t have to either.

I’m sensing some Olympic level projection emanating from your direction.

You're spouting utter nonsense, OP. The supposed suicidal ideation stats have been thoroughly debinked and are a ridiculous scare tactic that is both manipulative and irresponsible. "Better a live daughter than a dead son" and the other foul bollocks pedalled by Mermaids etc to terrify worried parents and vulnerable young people are not accepted anymore.

Have probably never spoken to a trans person - are you having a laugh? Many of us have trans-identifying people in our families, communities and workplaces. "Don't know", my arse.

"How is this affecting you?"
For the love of god, this affects every single woman living in the U.K. How can it not affect us? What it would be "taking from" us is the right to single sex spaces, women only hospital wards, refuges, prisons. The right of lesbians to have groups and organisations of their own, excluding males. The rights of some religious to be in male-free environments. The rights of people needing medical care to receive that from a person of their sex. The right to enjoy contact sport without the physical risk male people present. The right to compete fairly without facing an opponent who's been through male puberty.

The right to keep rapists like Karen W out of women's prisons and sex offenders like Katie D out of women's hostels.

The right to the words to describe ourselves as women, mothers, breastfeeding women and not cis, not gestating parents, not chest feeders.

How dare you negate the lives and experiences of 50% of the population?

It keeps the money making machine going to propagate the suicide agenda. I think it's as simple as that.

There is no new legislation. Everything was as it was but as it turns out for years trans people misinterpreted the law.

No post is stopping you fighting for rights and better MH provision. But why is it the problem of women? Why can’t you fight for it yourselves? Rather than expecting us to share our hard won for spaces and rights at the detriment of our privacy and safety?

Louis Appleby, a government advisor on suicide prevention gives the following advice when referring to young people.

"We - all of us whatever our perspective - have a collective responsibility : support, reassure, keep safe. "

People making alarming claims about the SC judgment are being incredibly irresponsible.

First post nails it as usual.

Im going to use an analogy I used on another thread as I think it’s apt:

A man parking where he shouldn’t for 10 years whilst a woman who IS entitled to park there says “You're not supposed to park there, it’s my space”. and him saying “STFU I’ll park where I want” - then one day he gets 10 years of tickets and shouts at the woman “See what you FUCKING did! I’ve now got fines and have to find somewhere else to park thanks to you! Bitch!”. And everyone being concerned about where he’s going to park now and chastising the woman for being happy about getting her parking space back.

It’s nothing like Section 28 and it’s grossly offensive to make a comparison. And it’s gaslighting to suggest that TW have no voice. How come it’s all we fucking hear - and from TW who have behaved in disgusting ways too being platformer.

Trans people are more than allowed to live their lives - just in spaces according to their sex.

If being trans makes people so suicidal, maybe it isn’t the answer to whatever questions they have about themselves.

If trans people are truly so worried about being in spaces with men (which I can understand) then this is the time to group up, start planning for your own third spaces.

If you continue to insist on muscling in on women’s spaces, we women know it isn’t about safety, it’s about getting into places you aren’t welcome. If you want to be treated “like women”, start acting like it, instead of like entitled men, pushing women out of their hard won places.

I know it’s not all trans people and I have sympathy for those who were just quietly living their life before all this, but it’s happened now, the cat’s out of the bag and you know you’re not welcome in women only spaces, so start your own campaign for trans spaces.

Where was the empathy for the last decade for women who don’t want men in their changing rooms, hospitals wards and prisons? Did you see the individual when you read about the women raped by TW who had been granted access to them?

I could see and be friend with 1,000 TW - they will never be women and never be entitled to my spaces. I have lots of lots of male friends who I don’t invite to be in my space because that’s not the terms of my friendships. Access to women’s spaces isn’t a reward for being a nice person or good friend. The fact so many men see access to women’s spaces as a prize, given if you work hard enough at “womaning”/calling people bigots/throwing your maleness around, speaks volumes.

Right back atcha. Women were just trundling along in the world when men decide to try and nab our liberties, as per the norm. We didn’t start the fight, We simply fought back.

Trans people are protected and recognised by law.

How many children have been protected by the idea that trans women are dangerous in public toilets? And how many have been harmed by the fear, shame, and stigma those claims create?

If you think children have been harmed and stigmatised by the trans movement take it up with TRAs

You might want to look into the number of sexual crimes committed both by TW and in public toilets

So tell me: how will giving unfettered access to TW in female spaces improve suicide rates? They’ve been barging their way into our spaces for years and according to you the suicide rates are high. So what’s not working? And why should women be collateral damage in the process?

Telling a man that he’s a woman is lying.

Toilets are really the thin end of the washed. Most of us have spent years being gravely concerned about hospitals wards, prisons, DV shelters and sports. My DD is a boxer - why should she ever have to step in the ring with a man?

What exactly is being taken from you?

Privacy, safety, dignity, language, freedom of speech. Well not anymore as this ruling has adopted common sense. Trans people DID take from us for years because the interpreted the law their own way

Can I ask you OP: what is a woman?

And I’m a white woman - can I identify as a black woman? Can I black up, adopt stereotypes, join black-only events and tell everyone how I’m just like them because I feel black? If not why not?

I fully agree.

But you used the word woman to differentiate yourself from a man. Do you think there are any differences between a woman and a man? As in, do you believe that a man is a (male or female) person who .... whereas a woman is a (male or female) person who.... ?

Trans people have been around for decades so I don't understand why so many problems have come about in the past 10 years or so. What did trans people do before? No one had any issue with them until they started trying to erode women's rights.

This woman probably felt like shit too:

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744.amp

The woman who was raped by a transwoman while in hospital and then told for a year it didn’t happen, couldn’t possibly have happened because only women were on the ward (because “transwomen are women.”) A year. That would be traumatic beyond belief but would happen again if we insist TWAW and can have free access to women’s spaces.

I definitely don’t want to legislate anyone out of existence. But that hasn’t happened. There are still protections in place for trans people under the Equality Act. They just can’t come into a woman’s space if it is labelled as female only. That’s all. That isn’t the same as hating them or wishing they didn’t exist.
It absolutely is about saying that women need to be safe. If trans people don’t feel safe in men’s spaces then they need to campaign for a third option.
What I’d actually like is for people to be able to live however they want, dress however they want, without needing to label it ‘for a man’ or ‘for a woman’ but for people to respect the spaces designated for each sex. For sex to mean your biology and gender to mean dress how you like and enjoy whatever it is you enjoy without encroaching on anyone else.

@JandamiHashNo as a white woman, you cannot identify as a Black woman. That would be offensive and trivialise a minority identity shaped by generations of oppression.
@Firefly1987 They're just not hiding anymore
@babybythesea yes, that does sound very shit but very rare

I think trans activism sometimes derails the broader discussion. There are people who identify as trans who act out and are angry and hurt people yes. But this isn’t unique to trans people. Every marginalised group has been stereotyped through its most vocal or upset members, think of the “angry Black person” or “angry lesbian” tropes.

So if I can’t identify as a black woman because it would be offensive to an oppressed group (which I agree with BTW) why can men, as oppressors of women, “identify” into the female sex? Why are they applauded for using stereotypes to trivialise what it means to be a woman?

Why are you making things up? What has women wanting to protect their spaces got to do with everything you have just projected.

If trans people have issues, they need to seek help. It is not women’s collective responsibility to take the burden and feel responsible for all of trans problems.

Agreed. And so did Fred Sargeant

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11231895/amp/Veteran-gay-rights-protester-74-1969-Stonewall-Riots-attacked-pro-trans-mob.html

A gay rights protestor and co-founder of the first Gay Pride Parade in New York City was attacked by a pro-trans group at a Vermont Pride event for holding an anti-woke sign that dismissed transgenderism.

Fred Sargeant, 74, was attacked after holding a sign with a red line through the phrases 'Woman Face' and 'Black Face,' at the 39th Burlington Pride Parade in Vermont.