Are my friends right?

[Ammamamam]

I am very lucky that I have a close friend group with three other women. I’ve known them a long time and really trust their judgment.

Been with DP since I was 29 and I’m now 37. We have one DD age 3. DP is hospital doctor and pretty much is always at the hospital. This has always been the way but since DD I feel irritated when he’s not in touch or just doesn’t prioritise getting home at a reasonable time (even when he technically could!).

I broke down last weekend and confided in my friends that I actually felt like the relationship was very much me propping up his career while I got on with family life (I also work) and day to day stuff pretty much alone. I expected my friends to suggest leaving and so on but they all unanimously said I needed to accept I have a lot of good stuff that comes from his job (financially) and that when he is around he is very hands on with DD. My friends were saying often their partners/husbands don’t do much all week yet barely earn anything close to DP and they’re not even hands on when they get home. I think they see my life as financially easy and therefore it makes up for the often rubbish weeks.

I feel so conflicted. Tonight is another example. We are taking DD to Disneyland tomorrow morning and he’s not even home yet, haven’t been in touch with me, I’ve text to ask when he’s likely to be back… that was 3 hours ago. When he’s at the hospital he simply doesn’t seem to recognise we exist. outside of this he is very attentive though. I didn’t expect my life to be like this and I feel sad that it’s ended up this way. I don’t feel the money is a fair or good reason to stay and I’m seriously questioning the relationship. But I also don’t want to upset DD who is obviously used to us being together. It’s another night feeling thoroughly fed up…

Have you discussed it with him? What changes would make you happier?

Why did you want your friends to validate leaving? I suppose your friends are thinking that If the alternative were being a single mum and doing the entire lot alone because you won't have time for dating and it's often harder finding a new partner when you have a child anyway, would leaving such a comfortable lifestyle which brings so much stability still be so appealing?

Yes and no. Some people - many people - do make this kind of trade off. Staying married in exchange for safety / security / money / protection / "for the children".

On your related point, you've made the mistake many of us do in expecting someone to change once life circumstances change. That rarely happens.

By all means, talk to your DH about how you feel and whether there are changes that can be made so your marriage is happer but, if this is the way he has always behaved, it's unlikely he's going to change. It's up to you to decide whether you want to be in a marriage that's a trade off, and whether the trade is worth it; or whether you want something different.

I think there are too many questions to give you honest advice.

Do you both do proportionally the same amount of housework and childcare (allowing for differences in working hours).

Is he staying late at work having a brew and a chat or actually working?

Is he not contactable through the nature of his role or is he choosing not to check his phone all day? Do you have a way to contact him in an emergency? Do you mean he doesn't message to see how your day is going, or he doesn't check in when something important has happened (serious medical appointment etc.).

Have you been pressured to put your career second or is it more flexible to allow for pickups/something you've chosen to step back.

Do you both have equal access to money?

Is he an NHS doctor. They are in short supply. Think they are worked so hard and maybe feel bad leaving colleagues to cope in emergencies. Not that that helps you. Have you spoken to him about how you feel. Why is he always late. Etc. Understand you're living a lonely life, but maybe a sympathetic ear before you decide to leave. Can you pay a cleaner with the extra money so at least you're not doing everything. Good luck, hope you make the right choices.

Fantastic post.... 100% agree!

Hello OP,

I am a health care professional married to a consultant hospital doctor.

There are so many responses telling you that you are unreasonable and needy, and that you're demanding all-day-long inane chitchat, just because you'd like a basic level of communication. I'm sure you know what is appropriate and realistic according to his specialty/work patterns/environment. It is not unreasonable to want to know when the father of your child will be home from work, when they are showing up hours past finishing time.

Being a couple is one thing, sharing a family together is entirely different. The expectations of fathers and mothers seems woefully mismatched.

People will always expect both you and your spouse to be a martyr because of 'doctor'. You are expected not to complain, and to have somehow had a crystal ball that showed you exactly how your life would look and feel, in relation to his career, despite the fact that we are living in an ever changing world, with increasing pressures, and that we are also living persons who change throughout a lifetime. Submit and resign yourself, seems to broadly be the message.

People will also assume you have pots of money to buy in help, in place of a having a present father, or family, or indeed a 'village' to raise your family in.

It's all bollocks.

Both of you can be wonderful people, trying really hard, and it can still be utterly shit.

Those issues don't just go away, so it is ok to ask these questions and to see what can be shifted, if anything.

From someone who is 10 years further down the line from you, I'd like to say it gets easier, but it hasn't so far for us. Parenting teens is no less time consuming or intense- the demands are just different. Midlife hits, and years of stress culminate in burn out. An inability to have boundaries at work, and at home, about how much one can manage, doesn't work out long term for anyone. The hole gets deeper and the roles are harder to shift. I am default parent, who has sacrificed my own career to fill every gap and spin all the plates at home. My husband is on his knees and struggling to function, with an unreasonable workload. We are both exhausted, and definitely not thriving.

Is that really what people want of the doctors caring for their loved ones?

For what it's worth, the younger generation of doctors do seem to have a healthier ability to set boundaries and achieve work-life balance. I hope so, because the alternative isn't sustainable.

So keep asking the questions, and take care of yourself, as much as you can.

I don't agree with your friends. From personal experience medical jobs can be very full on, especially on calls for junior doctors (not sure if your DH is still in training or not). So I have some sympathy with your DH. Also when he is actually working, unlike with some office jobs, it probably is unrealistic to expect him to answer text ect all the time (you may not expect this I wasn't quite clear from your message). Obviously his work won't be as felxible as some other jobs. He should definitely let you know if he will be delayed at the hospital though at the very least and respond in an emergency of course.

Plenty of doctor mum and dads do make it work, leave the hospital for pick ups, equally parent. Many are doctor couples, where both have to arrange pick ups, sort out cover when the child is sick ect. I am sorry I haven't read all the posts, but obviously talk to him about how your feel. You shouldn't be expected to just support his career, you should be supporting each other. It may be that this is happening to some extent, but if you don't perceive you are getting enough support, especially if it is always you picking up the slack and doing the life admin, you need to discuss what needs to change to make your family work for all of you.

With some medic couples I know neither work full time. Reducing from 10 to 8 or 9 consultant sessions can make very little impact take home pay once you consider tax and free childcare eligibility. Others have a nanny to make things easier (obviously expensive). It may be he just needs to understand all you do though and you both think about what changes he needs to make to support you more. Just because he is a doctor doesn't mean he can't contribute equally to family life and he shouldn't be using it as an excuse. Lots of men who are not medics also don't contribute equally to family life of course, but that doesn't make it right and is irrelevant to your family situation.

During breaks between cases, DH is typing in the operation notes and ensuring everyone else is sticking to the plan for the next case. He literally perches on a chair outside his theatre to eat his lunch to make sure the next patient is being sent for. It’s not all as easy as that. Sure on clinic days there would potentially be “time” to text, but with an overloaded clinic being the norm and people waiting over an hour past there appointment, in reality, there isn’t

Their appointment

he is at work in a pressurised environment so no, I wouldn’t be expecting him to be checking his phone for messages or available for a chat. My husband was developing an annoying habit of phoning me and messaging me while I was at work about random non urgent stuff or because he was bored. The rule is now unless something has happened to the kids, the house is on fire or someone is dead, it can wait until I get home!

Yet when I visit theatres they are a chatty jovial bunch definitely using their staff room and kitchen. There’s some fascinating perceptions in this thread. I’m not saying he’s not busy and I’m not saying he can message loads but the occasional message is not an unreasonable request.

He's a doctor working in a hospital. I know I wouldn't be impressed with a hospital doctor who didn't see me when I was ill, because he's going to be late home when he's going on holiday the next day. It goes with the territory - sick & injured people take priority over being home on time.

Or would you prefer waiting lists were even longer, people had to stay in hospital longer, or things were operated on or diagnosed later than they could have been so your DP can get home on time?

I know a fair few doctors. They all worked EXTREMELY hard but it has enabled them all to take retirement at what I would consider to be very early ages. One works sporadically now, the others are enjoying their 'retirement' (some by taking up marathon running, but, hey).

So how long do you have to go before he could consider leaving his job and either staying home full time or taking up something less arduous? Is it worth waiting it out?

Being a Dr in a hospital setting is incredibly intense. You don't have a moment to yourself some days and are dealing with intense and emotional situations all the time. And lets face it - the NHS is on its knees. The pressure is relentless. The patients don't stop. Its exhausting.

I think you're being somewhat unreasonable. However, its your life and only you can decide if its worth it or not.

I would prefer better investment to create a better, well-researched system.

It's interesting how many people are defaulting to terms like spouse and marriage, when OP used the term DP and hasn't mentioned being married.

I wonder if it's because people's understanding of situations where one partner is in the support role and the other takes 0% of child responsibility whilst working is that it should involve marriage, in order to be equitable. OP could just have been using partner for shorthand, but given that she refers to her friend's husbands and partners my guess is not.

However much people think the NHS doctors treating them shouldn't have to worry about domestic life when working, if said doctors also have dependent DC, that also requires someone in the background dealing with 100% of any pieces that need picking up. That person should be on board with what's happening and also getting a fair deal.

YABU - I think you need to adjust your expectations and become a bit more resilient/realistic otherwise your resentment/frustrations will grow. This isn't going to change. I would expect him home towards the later time that is usual and it be a bonus if he arrives earlier and stop asking for an ETA. I find Life360 (or similar) really useful for this - set up a notification for when he leaves the hospital, if you want a heads up on when he will be home.

He shouldn't need to be in contact during the working day at all (I would struggle to do that with my job as well). I was married to a hospital doctor (before children) and then married to someone who was in meetings all day or travelling internationally (which was even worse for being away from home), so in total it has been 25+ years of living like this. I think the only thing you can realistically do is change your response to it.

I guess it helped a lot that this was pretty normal amongst the people I saw day-to-day so it felt normal. BIL is away with work 25 weeks of the year (has 3 children in 2.5 years - singleton and twins). A couple of my mum friends had husbands who lived in London Mon-Fri and were only at home at the weekends usually. I also know a lot of people with spouses in the forces.

My other half is a health care professional, she has worked super long hours her whole career. It has impacted negatively on her in terms of stress.
Years ago a friend of mine who works in a very pressured environment and runs her own business told me the hours my partner works were unsustainable, and she was right.
My partner is trying much harder now to work more normal hours. You can work 24 hours a day every single day of the year if you work in health care, but you shouldn't and nor should the OPs husband.
And I get you OP it's not fair that all the domestic stuff falls to you. And you don't have to stay with him if you aren't happy. I actually think not having an absent partner to resent and be angry with is a good thing!

Lots of people are talking about how he’ll definitely have the time to text, but maybe he doesn’t want to or doesn’t feel that it’s necessary to be in contact regularly.

I know when I’m at work I don’t really think about DH or feel the need to contact him unless there’s an emergency, and would probably find it quite claustrophobic if he expected me to text him regularly.

The fact that he’s late home sometimes or annoying but it’s also normal for many jobs. Unless he needs to be home by a specific time or for a specific reason, then maybe it’s easier to just accept he’ll be home when he can. Dating a doctor isn’t really ideal if you want someone who’s home at 5pm and who never gets stuck at work.

From everything you have said he sounds like a good man, a good Dad and a good Doctor. What more could you want? Sounds like you’ve hit the jackpot. Have a lovely time in Disneyland and make the most of the time off together. He’s doing a hard job.

I would imagine if you’re a doctor dealing with life and death situations, the last thing on your priority list would be to respond to your wife’s text asking when you’ll be home. Be careful what you wish for. Things will get better as your child grows to be more independent and not need as much hands on time. and he sounds present when at home. The grass, as they say, isnt always greener…

Ok I am going to buck the trend here and say the female enabling of selfish male - I am so important, I cannot communicate behaviour on this thread is quite frankly unbelievable..

I am a surgeon - so yes there are times when instant communication is not possible. But there is not surgeon / doctor/ anaesthetist who works, who is scrubbed for12+ hours at a stretch without break. Clinics do not run every minute to the point you can not send a text message.

One BF would send me messages and when I did not answer asked me. Coud you please send me a message at some point in the day - you are alive, running late, having a good day/ bad day etc. it brought me up short and made me re think my time. Everyone in the hospital has their phone on them all the time, there is time to communicate - maybe not a long protracted conversation but some comms are possible and everyone can do it.

If I got stuck in theatre, my phone was on the side and I could still get someone to go out of theatre and phone my childminder to say that I was running late.

Set the bar a little higher ladies!

My friends daughter when her husband is on rotation sometimes goes to stay with her mother and father especially when the children were babies, pre schoolers. Can @Ammamamam do this?

But that’s not going to help OP with her current situation.