Trans people

[Mog65]

Firstly, I'm a trans ally

Everyone is up in arms about trans women. What seems to be forgotten these people are human beings. Where is humanity. You have probably been sharing toilets and coming into contact with trans women every day and have no idea. You only hear about the few bad ones. In a public toilet, you go into a cubical and pee. Its not like you're sat there in full public view with your knickers at your ankles.

What has been forgotten also, as many females are changing to. So trans men. So you're in hospital in a ward. The woman in the next bed, identifys as George, clit is now a penis fully working and you're in the next bed! Same person can wander around female only spaces as the law has changed. George can now only be searched by a female. By the way George a transgender man is a pervert! All hypothetical but nobody has brought this up.

Just a thought.

Which of this pair is the male and which is the female? Laverne Cox with E. Page. Can you see how scale works?

That wasn't the point though. The reply was supposed to be to "name one trans man that passes" or something like that

Lots pass, in careful photos. Not so much in candid ones, or in real life:

I would have just said one was a short woman and one was a tall woman, if I was randomly shown this without knowing Laverne is male.

Height isn't always a reliable indicator of sex though. I wouldn't hinge whether I thought someone was male or female just from that. You don't look at males that are 5"3 and go "that's a female" do you?

That's why I said I don't understand why scale is important - I could show a picture of a tall man and a short man and ask which is the female, even though they're both male.

But if scale is such the indicator that it is, do you think all men under a certain height are actually women in disguise? Where does "short man" end and "obviously a female actually" begin?

If you look properly at it you’d notice his giant head, big hands, broad shoulders, total lack of waist, short body and careful dressing to try and hide these attributes. I get that not everyone is very observant, especially for carefully posed pictures that are designed to deceive but the other picture of the four people posted by @Nameychangington is a much better example. When you put men to women you can generally see a noticeable difference in physique.

Don’t be fooled by images that set out to deceive - irl you’d spot it a mile off.

It’s quite hard to explain how it’s obvious without being very brutal and candid.
And just because people don’t point and say it out loud it doesn’t mean they aren’t thinking it.

I’m afraid this is starting to sound like people who make the argument that no one know what biological sex is. Surely you understand how to use scale when evaluating an image of people?

Yes, I can see who is larger or smaller than other people, but scale alone (which is what the poster I originally replied to was talking about) is not a reliable indicator of sex in every instance is it? Otherwise (if you were only relying on scale, which again is what the poster said - that if a trans man passes they won't actually pass when you look at scale in real life) you'd say all short men are women.

There’s a lot of evidence from research eg that done by Katie Alcock, that we are pretty hard wired from early childhood to be able to tell the difference between male and female.

it’s kind of important for the reproduction of the species! As well as for women and girls to keep themselves safe.

And I'm not saying you can't tell the difference in most cases - just that in some instances you can't/it can become difficult to judge someone's sex in some cases. It's hardly a controversial thing to say, nor extreme. It's a pretty mild view - you can't always tell and you can't always not tell. You can usually tell, sometimes you can't.

I didn’t see anyone say that you can rely on scale alone though??

I think it’s pretty obvious who is the male and who is the female

I think the issue is where do we draw the line, do we allow a man in a wig and a dress to come into the women's toilets because he wants to be a woman??

But that was my point at the very start. I named a trans man that passes in my eyes, but apparently none of them do if you look at scale? But if a trans man passes to me then scale won't change that will it? As adding scale to someone that already passes to me, means they would just appear to me as a short male doesn't it?

So scale to me seems unimportant, as it's not likely to change my perception of someone as male or female if I'm already viewing them as one or the other due to other factors.

I don't know, it just seems like a weird hill to die on - that you don't think anybody can ever pass, not ever, that's all, and anybody who thinks someone passes must be what? Lying? Arguing to absolutes like 'always' and 'never' about a matter of perception doesn't seem correct

In general, if I am in doubt at first glance, my second glance will be to feet (over size 10 = likely to be male) wrists (on the whole men have thicker wrists than women of the same overall bulk), or throat: very few women indeed have protuberant Adam's apples.

I have known two men who passed on first sight as women even IRL; both then behaved and talked in a way which put that sex-judgement into immediate doubt. I have known many who didn't "pass" but were lovely people no matter which gender they wanted to think they were so I didn't care. And I have known several utter shits who raised my hackles on a five-minute acquaintance and would not be welcome in my house whichever gender they were being at any given time.

Gait, posture, the way someone sits, their hips, Adam’s apple, voice (more so for trans identifying men), attitude - one or more will be “off” for most trans people, of either sex and trigger that uncanny valley feeling.

Photos can be more difficult. There’s a lot you can do with angles, filters, careful clothing choices etc. They’re not a gotcha.

Yep and there was a second incident where some on twitter were pointing out that some bottles were a rather unhealthy colour 🤨🙈 and a doctors visit may have been advisable 🤷‍♀️

And read at your own risk ...😬

https://reduxx.info/uk-trans-activists-stage-piss-filled-protest-in-front-of-londons-equality-and-human-rights-commission/

I will never stop being amazed that the dominant, top-down ideology was in favour of these people, and that it accused women who didn't want them in their spaces of being the perverse ones.

It just looks so weird.

Yes. So many examples of this including the prison authorities favouring male criminals that sexually harassed incarcerated women and punishing the women who complained about being sexually harassed by these men.

Then there was the male paedophile placed in a women’s prison with a mother and baby unit. As women are generally far less violent than men, women’s prisons are not staffed in the same way as men’s - making security breaches by a determined male far more likely. I think he was eventually moved for causing some issue with a vulnerable woman.

How much do these people in authority hate women?

I feel like it’s almost worse than hate. It’s as if woman are irrelevant, that are so centred on the rights of the man there is no thought or consideration given to the women it impacts beyond making sure they don’t create paperwork problems.

Yes. Many see us as just support creatures for men.

I’m not surprised that some men think that but I can’t fathom the vehement support for this from women.

This. This. This. This. This.

Millions of years of evolution have designed women to immediately detect a man in their midst. There are a thousand micro tells that give men away. Not even the truly beautiful, delicate, petite Thai Lady Boys can 100% pull it off.

Women always know. We have always known.