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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Trans people

999 replies

Mog65 · 17/04/2025 16:46

Firstly, I'm a trans ally

Everyone is up in arms about trans women. What seems to be forgotten these people are human beings. Where is humanity. You have probably been sharing toilets and coming into contact with trans women every day and have no idea. You only hear about the few bad ones. In a public toilet, you go into a cubical and pee. Its not like you're sat there in full public view with your knickers at your ankles.

What has been forgotten also, as many females are changing to. So trans men. So you're in hospital in a ward. The woman in the next bed, identifys as George, clit is now a penis fully working and you're in the next bed! Same person can wander around female only spaces as the law has changed. George can now only be searched by a female. By the way George a transgender man is a pervert! All hypothetical but nobody has brought this up.

Just a thought.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
41
JandamiHash · 18/04/2025 20:56

XxSideshowAuntSallyx · 18/04/2025 15:45

We used to have a trans woman come into the department store I used to work in(she was quite well known in the area). When she needed a bra fitting, she would be seen in the personal shopper room and was done by one of the supervisors. She never had a problem with that.

There are ways around it, that don't involve separate trans toilets and changing rooms. If you've had the op then use the female toilets/changing rooms, most women wouldn't notice. If you have a penis still and are just dressing up as a woman, then no you shouldn't be in there.

Mutilating a penis doesn’t make someone a woman.

Bottom surgery is also incredibly dangerous, with a low success rate and lifelong effects. I don’t want more people feeling they have to have it than necessary. Just treat men as men and women as women, protect everyone from discrimination and let’s start lobbying for 3rd spaces

JandamiHash · 18/04/2025 20:56

mrshoho · 18/04/2025 16:05

All this talk from lost cat of body parts morphing into different body parts and for some reason the phrase 'dick for brains' keep springing to mind.

Can a dick become a brain? Is there part of the brain that shares cells with a dick? If so you may literally be onto something

Fourpawsblack · 18/04/2025 20:59

Exactly. How can chopping off a penis turn someone into a woman.

So if an unfortunate male has an accident and looses an appendage is he a woman too?

Jumpingthruhoops · 18/04/2025 21:07

Meadowfinch · 17/04/2025 16:51

That's not the point.

The point is that the safety and well being of women should not be jeopardised for a tiny tiny minority. Women's protections have been hard won over more than a century and need to be protected.

Of course, that does not alter the fact that anyone going through or on the other side of transition, is a sentient human being and deserves respect and care. It's just that care and respect can take place separately from women.

Anyone going through or on the other side of transition, is a sentient human being and deserves respect and care. It's just that care and respect can take place separately from women.

100% agree with this! 👏👏

I must admit I am curious about what seems to be something of an obsession with transpeople occupying women's spaces.
Surely the best action would be for TRAs to campaign for unisex spaces? For example, I believe Wagamama toilets are divided into 'men', 'women' and 'everyone'. Seriously, how hard is that!?

Helleofabore · 18/04/2025 21:22

Jumpingthruhoops · 18/04/2025 21:07

Anyone going through or on the other side of transition, is a sentient human being and deserves respect and care. It's just that care and respect can take place separately from women.

100% agree with this! 👏👏

I must admit I am curious about what seems to be something of an obsession with transpeople occupying women's spaces.
Surely the best action would be for TRAs to campaign for unisex spaces? For example, I believe Wagamama toilets are divided into 'men', 'women' and 'everyone'. Seriously, how hard is that!?

It is because they are women, innit?

(this is sarcasm)

TransMother · 18/04/2025 21:57

Thank you @13J for your post. Best wishes from this random Internet stranger to you Flowers

PalmTreeAngel · 18/04/2025 22:14

Helleofabore · 18/04/2025 21:22

It is because they are women, innit?

(this is sarcasm)

Well, this is it. They don’t want 3rd spaces. They want female spaces, because women validate their identity…

LittlerCharlotte · 18/04/2025 22:39

13J · 18/04/2025 12:48

@Mog65 This will be lengthy but I hope you read it, and I hope others do too. Don’t just read the first line and assume my views.

i am a trans man. Socially transitioned at 18, have had full mastectomy and phalliplasty and I ‘pass’ very well. I’m mid 30s now.

I understand what you’re trying to say, you are right, trans people have existed and some of them have used single sex spaces with no issue. A lot of them wish no harm to anyone and really do just need to pee, they just want to live their life and that’s fantastic.

BUT

You can’t deny biology, as much as some people would like to. It is what it is, you’re born how you are born. You can transition socially, change your name, wear different clothes, and everything else you think goes along with a gender. You can get some surgery to make your body look more like the gender you identify with.

But, your biological sex has not changed, nor have any medical needs associated with it.
As I said, I’ve had phalloplasty, but I do not have a fully functioning penis. I have arm skin sewn on to my pubic bone, a lengthened urethra and testicular implants in my outer labia.
I cannot get an erection, and therefore cannot penetrate anything without the use of either a device to inflate the arm skin (which I opted not to have fitted due to the massive risks of complications but that’s by the by) or some kind of strap on. It looks more masculine than my body did before, and my face looks masculine so when you meet me, you wouldn’t initially think female but nobody is going to see me naked and think I was born male because I wasn’t.

a trans man who opted for metoidioplasty will have normal sized testicular implants and their clit will have grown a little due to to testosterone. It is still a clit tho and again, you absolutely can tell. It is also unlikely to be big enough to do anything with.

A trans woman can have all the surgery in the world to look more femanine but you are going to be able to tell, and they can have surgery to invert the penis to mimic a vagina. But it still won’t be one.

in your fictional scenario,
firstly, ‘George’ will be placed on a ward corresponding to his body, not his gender identity. If he has a vagina he will be placed on a female ward and most women are okay with that. If there’s any doubt a side room will typically be used.

Since surgery, where appropriate I have been placed on male wards, with no issue. but nobody is going to think that George is a pervert on either ward.

george may well be a pervert, as might any man or women. But if they are it won’t be because of their gender identity.

Georgina however, is different
she has the strength, and likely height and build of a man, making it much easier to overpower a woman

and if she has not had surgery, then she is capable of rape. And potentially Impregnation.

and in reality, the issue isn’t, and never has been the percentage of genuine trans women who assault women.

it is the amount of men who will use self ID to their advantage to access women’s spaces with the intention of assaulting them.

it is the trans women who want to change in full view of women in changing rooms making sure that their very male penis is in full view.

How many women do you know who want to flaunt themselves like that? Even in a female space.

And why do so many trans women opt not to have surgery? If you feel you are a woman, and want to be treated as such, why would you want to keep a body part that is inherently male? Women don’t stand to pee, and can’t penetrate others without the use of an object. So if they’re opting to keep the penis (with the exception of someone who is not fit for surgery but would’ve liked it) Then they’re keeping it to use it, as a man would.

EVERYONES rights are important, but you don’t get better right for trans people by eradicating women’s right.

I don’t use female facilities, I don’t feel it would be right because I know how male I look and sound and because I wouldn’t feel comfortable in that space.

I will use the male facilities, but often I opt for the third spaces, the single accessible toilets with no gender. For my own safety, and for the comfort and safety of others (not because I am a threat, but because I may be perceived as one).

When I voiced these opinions with trans friends, I was told I was transphobic, I was excluded from my own ‘community’ because I don’t presume that my rights are more important than anyone else’s

You cannot demand equality and then kick and scream when you are not given special treatment.

And on behalf of every genuine trans person who just wants to identify as they feel, wishes no harm to anyone and just wants to live their life, who probably did use single sex spaces and cause no concern to anyone.

i want to ask you to stop.

Stop trying to justify the removal of women’s rights, stop trying to deny biological sex.
Because you’re not doing it on our behalf. You’re not helping us, or making our lives easier.

You are enabling men to encroach on women’s spaces and rights, you’re helping them have a ready excuse for being someone they have no business being, and your making women too afraid to speak up for fear of being labelled phobic.

And those like me, who have lived comfortably in society for years just going about their day, now fear having to tell anyone they are trans, because it will be assumed we want special treatment, or we believe all the things that the media says we do.

I want to thank you for your calm explanation of your situation and I wish you all the best x

Kardamyli2 · 18/04/2025 23:28

Here's another thought - you don't get to decide anything on behalf of women.

Jumpingthruhoops · 19/04/2025 02:30

PalmTreeAngel · 18/04/2025 22:14

Well, this is it. They don’t want 3rd spaces. They want female spaces, because women validate their identity…

But it's not our job to validate their identity!? A third space really is the only feasible solution.

I do find it mildly amusing though... the vitriol coming from transwomen and TRAs since the ruling. And they wonder WHY they're not welcome in female-only spaces!?

ByWittyLimePoet · 19/04/2025 06:53

More people will be coming out of the woodwork in favour of the recent SC ruling, now that they cannot be labelled transphobic for pointing out basic biology.

PalmTreeAngel · 19/04/2025 07:44

Jumpingthruhoops · 19/04/2025 02:30

But it's not our job to validate their identity!? A third space really is the only feasible solution.

I do find it mildly amusing though... the vitriol coming from transwomen and TRAs since the ruling. And they wonder WHY they're not welcome in female-only spaces!?

Precisely.

Ilovetowander · 19/04/2025 07:55

Biology is fact, there are males and females. Too many young people are being manipulated by this ideology. The sooner this trend stops the better. We are born male or female, we can’t change it. People need to be helped to be happy in their own skin.

Lucelady · 19/04/2025 08:32

Thank you to the OP and @13J

Arraminta · 19/04/2025 10:13

PalmTreeAngel · 18/04/2025 22:14

Well, this is it. They don’t want 3rd spaces. They want female spaces, because women validate their identity…

Exactly. If they genuinely knew themselves to be women, then they simply wouldn't need any validation.

I've never needed to validate that I'm a woman. I just am.

Silversixpenny · 19/04/2025 11:19

Jumpingthruhoops · 19/04/2025 02:30

But it's not our job to validate their identity!? A third space really is the only feasible solution.

I do find it mildly amusing though... the vitriol coming from transwomen and TRAs since the ruling. And they wonder WHY they're not welcome in female-only spaces!?

Exactly, and then don't like the outcome when women have had enough and go "nuclear" ie the Supreme Court.

Silversixpenny · 19/04/2025 11:20

ByWittyLimePoet · 19/04/2025 06:53

More people will be coming out of the woodwork in favour of the recent SC ruling, now that they cannot be labelled transphobic for pointing out basic biology.

And that's a good thing.

BundleBoogie · 19/04/2025 11:46

It’s fascinating that so many trans ‘allies’ on this thread (and even the purpose of this thread) have zero interest in the fact that the ruling actually benefits ‘transmen’ with a GRC and gives them full protection in maternity and abortion law that they wouldn’t have had if it went the other way.

You call yourselves trans allies but you are not. You are men allies.

Interestingly, in the area of law where this ruling SHOULD have meant a gain for ‘transwomen’ - inheritance and primogeniture, nothing has changed at all. Guess why? Because the men who call themselves women involved in the drafting of the GRC already sorted themselves out at the expense of a gain for ‘transmen’. They had it written so that the GRC changes sex for ‘all purposes’ EXCEPT for inheritance. So a man with a GRC to say he is female will still inherit land and titles as if he was a man and a woman with a GRC saying she is male won’t. We’ve seen it happen in real life. And as an aside, consider which class of men will have had inheritance and titles as their top concern? These are privileged and wealthy men, not the poor little oppressed beings that you seem to imagine.

That’s how much of a male supremacist movement you are all supporting.

Shetlands · 19/04/2025 12:16

@BundleBoogie Nails it! Brava! 👏

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 19/04/2025 12:41

It's the absolute insane expenditure of money and attention on a tiny section of the population who act completely spoiled - screaming, shouting and threatening and attacking.

There are so many, many more things that would gain a greater overall benefit to society as a whole than this diversion into insanity. The dreadful state many children have to live in, the injustices towards women in society, the sheer poverty so many people live in. And a tiny section of the population have derailed and absorbed an enormous amount of attention and money.

On top of that there is the sheer intellectual dishonesty of people like @HazelShark and a few other pro-trans posters here. They never ever acknowledge that real women actually have reason to be afraid. Pushing lies from from beginning to end, either by saying that men are women or by completely ignoring the situations that real women have to live in.

My autistic teen son once said he was heterosexual in an online conversation and got told to die in a fire by transsexuals. He was very upset. So I did some asking, quite neutrally at that point, and got called all the names under the sun.

I'm done with being sympathetic to the distress that some people with gender dysphoria have, because I haven't heard them rejecting and criticising the sick men who get off on pleasing themselves by pretending to be women and by forcing themselves into women's spaces so they can bully us.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 19/04/2025 12:46

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 19/04/2025 12:41

It's the absolute insane expenditure of money and attention on a tiny section of the population who act completely spoiled - screaming, shouting and threatening and attacking.

There are so many, many more things that would gain a greater overall benefit to society as a whole than this diversion into insanity. The dreadful state many children have to live in, the injustices towards women in society, the sheer poverty so many people live in. And a tiny section of the population have derailed and absorbed an enormous amount of attention and money.

On top of that there is the sheer intellectual dishonesty of people like @HazelShark and a few other pro-trans posters here. They never ever acknowledge that real women actually have reason to be afraid. Pushing lies from from beginning to end, either by saying that men are women or by completely ignoring the situations that real women have to live in.

My autistic teen son once said he was heterosexual in an online conversation and got told to die in a fire by transsexuals. He was very upset. So I did some asking, quite neutrally at that point, and got called all the names under the sun.

I'm done with being sympathetic to the distress that some people with gender dysphoria have, because I haven't heard them rejecting and criticising the sick men who get off on pleasing themselves by pretending to be women and by forcing themselves into women's spaces so they can bully us.

Exactly this.

And while I don't doubt that there are nice trans people out there who don't mean any harm, what were they doing when trans rights organisations purporting to act on their behalf were threatening to rape and murder women, and showing up at peaceful women's rights events with balaclavas and weapons? Where were they when the Isla Bryson scandal kicked off?

Because I didn't see a single one of the nice trans people I know speaking out and saying, "Not in our name."

I know some trans people have publicly opposed all this misogynistic, homophobic bullshit.

But not nearly enough of them.

So I'm afraid my sympathy is limited.

StupidBoy · 19/04/2025 13:25

A superb column from Janice Turner in the Times today. Absolutely superb. Sorry it's behind a paywall and I don't have/know how to do share tokens Confused but if you get the chance to read it please do.

ryaryar · 19/04/2025 13:35

Mog65 · 17/04/2025 16:46

Firstly, I'm a trans ally

Everyone is up in arms about trans women. What seems to be forgotten these people are human beings. Where is humanity. You have probably been sharing toilets and coming into contact with trans women every day and have no idea. You only hear about the few bad ones. In a public toilet, you go into a cubical and pee. Its not like you're sat there in full public view with your knickers at your ankles.

What has been forgotten also, as many females are changing to. So trans men. So you're in hospital in a ward. The woman in the next bed, identifys as George, clit is now a penis fully working and you're in the next bed! Same person can wander around female only spaces as the law has changed. George can now only be searched by a female. By the way George a transgender man is a pervert! All hypothetical but nobody has brought this up.

Just a thought.

I've witnessed women's sport become unfair and dangerous due to trans women so I can't be an ally because I'd be throwing women under the bus.

Gloriia · 19/04/2025 13:39

The amount of transmen on X testosteroned up and all angry saying they are going to go to women's loos so there is funny.

We don't care! We can spot you a mile off and women are always welcome in women's facilities.

Silversixpenny · 19/04/2025 14:18

BundleBoogie · 19/04/2025 11:46

It’s fascinating that so many trans ‘allies’ on this thread (and even the purpose of this thread) have zero interest in the fact that the ruling actually benefits ‘transmen’ with a GRC and gives them full protection in maternity and abortion law that they wouldn’t have had if it went the other way.

You call yourselves trans allies but you are not. You are men allies.

Interestingly, in the area of law where this ruling SHOULD have meant a gain for ‘transwomen’ - inheritance and primogeniture, nothing has changed at all. Guess why? Because the men who call themselves women involved in the drafting of the GRC already sorted themselves out at the expense of a gain for ‘transmen’. They had it written so that the GRC changes sex for ‘all purposes’ EXCEPT for inheritance. So a man with a GRC to say he is female will still inherit land and titles as if he was a man and a woman with a GRC saying she is male won’t. We’ve seen it happen in real life. And as an aside, consider which class of men will have had inheritance and titles as their top concern? These are privileged and wealthy men, not the poor little oppressed beings that you seem to imagine.

That’s how much of a male supremacist movement you are all supporting.

Can we also all appreciate how women in the Republic of Ireland rallied in their own hour of need when, last year, they voted to leave the definition of "mother" unchanged in their constitution.

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