Trans people

[Mog65]

Firstly, I'm a trans ally

Everyone is up in arms about trans women. What seems to be forgotten these people are human beings. Where is humanity. You have probably been sharing toilets and coming into contact with trans women every day and have no idea. You only hear about the few bad ones. In a public toilet, you go into a cubical and pee. Its not like you're sat there in full public view with your knickers at your ankles.

What has been forgotten also, as many females are changing to. So trans men. So you're in hospital in a ward. The woman in the next bed, identifys as George, clit is now a penis fully working and you're in the next bed! Same person can wander around female only spaces as the law has changed. George can now only be searched by a female. By the way George a transgender man is a pervert! All hypothetical but nobody has brought this up.

Just a thought.

And yet, some male people do just that.

They may or may not be transwomen.

Now you are just being deliberately obtuse.

Nah. A lot of trans men “pass” ( immediately look like/ are recognised as men).

Not sure it is deliberate. It could be conditioning and trying to make sense of illogical and factually incorrect mantras.

@13J thank you for your post. It was eloquent, heartfelt and extremely honest. It is appalling that voices like yours are shut down and disgraceful that rabid allies shut you out of your own communities. Good luck for your future.

Can’t say I’ve ever seen one.

Why can’t they just be women with masculine taste and preferences? Or men with feminine tastes and preferences?

Leo sums it up well

cant say I’ve ever seen one

exactly. You wouldn’t know if you had because they pass.

Yes!

And the reason that the Supreme Court decided as it did is that nobody presented an argument to explain why that is not the case.

It’s not just a question of threat. If a lesbian group wants to exclude all men, fundamentally they just want to exclude anyone of the opposite sex.

If you want to make an argument that sex should not be a a distinct category in law, you need to explain why. The law can’t operate based on concepts like ‘my trans friends are lovely’.

So what - you aren’t getting it. Gender critical feminists don’t base women on if they look “woman” enough. Thats the OPPOSITE of what we believe in. A trans man can have a beard and broad back for all I care, they’re still a woman and we welcome them into women’s spaces.

I doubt many trans people pass but it’s by the by. The notion of “woman” isn’t based on if you look feminine

@JandamiHash

It is much easier for trans men to pass than trans women, there definitely are some who pass well (myself included) and others who don’t, and never will. I’m not sure why tho.

But to answer your other question.
Society

The world as a whole stereotypes us from before we are born, based on our sex, ethnicity, location, the era we are born in.

While shops continue to have boys clothes and girls clothes, Boys toys and girls, pink for girls, blue for boys in gender reveal balloons

Then those who don’t fit within the ‘binary’ will feel out of place and will seek to fit in, either by denying who they are, what they like etc. Or by socially transitioning.

Non binary, has done nothing to help this and everything to harm it.
By feeling the need to come out as non binary it actually just reinforces that a binary idea of gender exists within our culture. .

I always say that I ‘felt’ male
But in reality I felt the way the world told me men felt, or I didn’t feel the way the world told me a woman should feel.

The woman in the next bed, identifys as George, clit is now a penis fully working... Just a thought.

Try thinking a bit harder. No clitoris will ever become a fully working penis, just as no inversion surgery will ever create a real vagina.

It is emotionally difficult for my daughter, who identifies as a transman, to admit that she is a woman, but she knows it. She prefers an outward male appearance and says she is better treated in society because she is assumed male (sad state of our society). But she knows she is denying reality in presenting as male.

But her mental anguish should not be at the expense of another person's anguish or discomfort. No one is entitled to force other people to accommodate their own fantasies.

@13J you have totally the right approach and I don't think we would have had to be where we are if that had been the popular view

I suggest you follow the conversation. I was responding to a poster who said that regardless of actual danger, it would trigger her friend who was raped to see a man in the woman’s toilets . I was pointing out that she would therefore be triggered by trans men who pass.

Also laughing out loud at the idea that the anti trans folks are the ones trying to do away with gender stereotypes

It’s quite clear from your posts on this thread that you bunked off school during biology lessons, so all you’re actually doing is convincing anyone with a basic understanding of science that your argument doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

Thank you.

I think it is valuable to have voices such as your who we are told are out there but who are not the ones we see on MN. In saying that, you are not alone and there are occasional female posters who drop by and answer questions and give their insight. And they usually correspond with what you have said. and we learn from those contributions.

Which is opposite to what male people with transgender identities post.

I might be wrong, but my impression is that ten plus years of trans activism has done nothing to change the impression that women are more threatened by men (trans women) than women (trans men). High profile trans men like Stephen Whittle just don’t project male violence.

I think you are just trolling here.

Gender is stereotypes.

Again you’re missing the point. None of us actually expect men to stop using women’s toilets. They’ll do what they like. The point is that we can now object to it without being labelled a bigot; and have something done. Also, the men we refer to aren’t the trans men - it’s the transwomen who very much don’t pass that are the concern because we KNOW they are men.

Also laughing out loud at the idea that the anti trans folks are the ones trying to do away with gender stereotypes

Jeez I’ve heard it all now. You’re delusion is beyond alarming The people who say “This man conforms to female sexist stereotypes so must be a woman” are the ones breaking gender barriers 😂 no love, you’re reinforcing them. Gender critical people are the ones who want to smash them so men can wear dresses and call themselves Lola and still be men.

Tell me, how does saying “He likes things marketed at women theorist be a woman” break gender stereotypes?

I can help.
I have never been assaulted by a man, therefore what happened to you was all in your head. Men don’t assault women because it’s never happened to me, so you can forget all about your MADE UP ISSUE and chill out, can’t you?

I don’t think the success rate of phalloplasty is terribly high. It’s a series of operations in an attempt to create a facsimile of a working penis and complication rate is high. Kudos to George if that’s the case but they are probably back in hospital with a fistula or nasty infection from the neophallus which isn’t doing so well.

My worst overall experience in hospital was on a single sex ward. Exhausted from previous night in A&E there were a couple of elderly ladies who most likely had dementia and one was just noisy and the other kept on getting up , stripping off and falling over. I was so tired and unwell, lots of sympathy for them but not sleeping never makes you feel better so by morning my obs were worse and they stuck me in a side room. I would like to see better sectioning of wards and more privacy for patients overall.

I have been in two mixed sex wards over the years ( surgical) both were fine. Personally I’d be happy to have a mixed sex ward and seperate geriatric wards. If a ward is single sex it should mean single sex though.

If George is exhibiting perverted behaviour then I assume should be dealt with like any other patient whose behaviour is less than ideal. Lots of people can’t control behaviour due to medical condition/ illness / medication so may need extra care to keep themselves / others safe. If they are willfully misbehaving I’d assume discharge or segregation would be the way forward.

The voices of transmen like 13J, who posted upthread, and transwomen like Fionne Orlander, whose campaign for third spaces I posted a few pages back, have been drowned out by aggressive misogynists. They get called truscum, and sidelined by a movement which trades on their struggles, for acknowledging that they haven't and can't change sex.

And these are the transpeople who will bear the brunt of the backlash, when the blue haired neo pronouners go off and find a new grift/male supremacist movement to shout about. Just like actual LGB people will bear the brunt of the overreach of the TQ+, and find the acceptance they fought for lumped in with fetishes and child abuse.

Aggressive males have been allowed to ride roughshod over women, LGB people and people with real and enduring gender dysphoria, and will bugger off and leave us service humans to clean up the mess and the casualties, like they always do.

They don't though. No amount of testosterone, tats and beards makes women look like men. They are usually short, slight of build and of course have women's hips.
Transmen tend to look like women wearing masculine styled clothes. Which is fine but doesn't make them men.

How would you know if they pass? since by definition if someone passes you wouldn’t realise they were trans.

So your statement “they don’t” is entirely based on your own (incorrect) assumptions/ prejudices.

Also I can’t believe I have to tell you that not all natal females are short, slight and have hips, but that seems to be where we are at.

I. Am. So . Exhausted. I can’t imagine how trans people must be feeling the last few days. 💔

This.