To think if your child ends up violent or criminal, it is partly your fault?

[TheTaupeMoose]

Parenting does matter, sorry.

You need one hell of a lot wider life experience @Perimenoanti . Really. Unless you're just trying to be goady. Come to think of it that's probably the case.

No, I agree, it doesn't cause criminality. I didn't mean to imply that.

Totally agree.

You’ve clearly never had to ask for help for a child with SEN, or who is struggling in school, or whose behaviour doesn’t fit the ‘norm’. Parents are always blamed first.

Re-read your initial post. That absolutely is what you stated. Yes you have tried to resile from that stark position in response to posters highlighting how absurd and wrongheaded your post was, but your initial position was clear.

In some cases of violent and/criminal behaviour bad parenting is a factor, of course. But literally no one believes otherwise. And that is very plainly not what you initially said.

There are socio-economic factors that will entwine though and skew figures. Young, poor, poorly educated teenagers are more likely to have children at too young an age. Possibly leading to unstable domestic lives and poor housing and economic situations. Leading to possibly poorly educated and unsupervised teenagers committing crimes.

The majority of all these people will wise up / grow up and get it together. Those that don't, go to prison where it starts to look like '100% of criminals come from shit backgrounds'.

Where is the difference between the two teenagers who shoplift together on the same estate? One becomes a plumber the other is in and out of prison always.

Yes and no. I think a lot of antisocial and criminal behaviour can stem from neglect and abuse. However aren’t some people just natural born psychopaths? Not much that parents can do about that when they leave home.

You realise people from privileged backgrounds commit crimes and go to jail too?

I’ve name changed for this. I do think parenting plays a role HOWEVER, I was raised by drug addicts and alcoholics. I saw violence every single day between my parents on both sides. I saw drug use, abuse of alcohol. Police on our doorstep multiple times a month. I went to school, got good grades, went into a career, I’ve never taken drugs or been violent, I rarely touch alcohol and if I do it’s a glass of wine whilst having dinner out. My DH is the most gentle man and fantastic father. Our kids live in a peaceful, clean, calm and loving home and never go without love or food like I did. Statistically, I didn’t have luck on my side but I wanted different. I think personality plays a big role, I knew from a very young age that what was going on was wrong and knew I didn’t want to live like that when I had the choice.

Also impulsivity and recklessness.

I totally agree and well done you.

Yes

I'm not sure it's as black and white as that. People can commit violent and non violent crimes for a huge variety of reasons. I think parenting could be A contributing factor, in some cases. But there are a whole host of influences and circumstances that lead someone to commit a crime. Every touchpoint and event in a persons life could be a contributing factor that lead to the decision to commit the crime. There are also personality and phsychological issues at play.
There are plenty of families where one child is not a criminal and one child is. And they had the same upbringing.
And also what level of crime. Speeding is a crime, murder is a crime, financial fraud is a crime, stealing food to eat is a crime, murdering your abusive husband is a crime, burglary is a crime, stealing penny sweets is a crime.

Agree. My DH has ADHD but he's never done anything criminal. He's a very kind and gentle person with ADHD.

Could you say more on this please? It sounds like you have both the experience and the academic framework to have a wide understanding of the issues.

What are the reasons you say that the more you learn, the less you blame the patents?

Ignoring the goady posts above, it's hard to escape the conclusion that the children of chaotic or poor parenting are probably proportionally slightly more likely to be involved in criminality that the children of steady, loving parenting.

What are the other factors and how far are they influential, from your experience?

Of course, but what's the percentage? And I'm thinking about two boys of the same background (let's move them to Eton) one wises up, one doesn't.

That’s considerable resilience and drive to shape and change your future
You’re evidently v reflective

As I said, that population isn't my area of expertise. Maybe different types of crimes predominate in different populations too?

@anon771 that must have been hell to grow up in. Well done for building a life that's so much better for you and your own children

I agree, there are definitely cases where biological or neurological factors play a big role. Some people do seem to be wired differently and that’s not always something parenting can prevent or undo.

But I also think even in those cases, parenting can still influence how those traits are managed or expressed. A child who struggles with empathy, impulse control or emotional regulation may still benefit from early structure, support and boundaries - even if those traits don’t go away. So I wouldn’t say parenting “fixes” everything, especially in extreme cases but I do think it can make a big difference in how someone learns to manage who they are and how the world responds to them.

I could write a book probably. In basic, I just realise that there are many forces that shape a person, some people are just more resilient than others, personality comes into it, peers encountered, a whole society, genetics, neurodiversity (diagnosed and undiagnosed). I'm especially interested in epigenetics at this time. I'm not saying parents can't make a difference, I just won't assume that and sometimes things go good or bad in spite of the parents.

I also wonder if there's some disagreement on this thread because people have different types of crimes in mind. Are we talking about the most extreme crimes or are we talking about petty crimes among them?

Oh I completely agree. Also I think repeat offending would be almost impossible without familial or at least financial support. The very act of getting from prison to the approved premises and getting the phone to work and managing it all on time is beyond lots of prisoners.

Don't agree.

One of my friends is a lovely guy, all his family are. His brother got involved with drugs in his teenage years, family tried everything to help, nothing worked, he committed sone horrific crimes and is now dead. All of his siblings couldn't be nicer people.

Another friend was raised by parents with addiction issues and criminal records, one significantly. He was absolutely determined to have a better life and does so.

I don't think it's as simple as bad parenting. Bad parenting does contribute in some cases but unfortunately even with the best parenting in the world, sometimes there are bad outcomes.

That's some concerning language you use 'getting stuck in the past doesn't help anyone move forward'. It's the language 'guilty' parents often use.

I don't know if you are ready to hear it: working with the past means processing and accepting (not blaming) what went wrong, which unhealthy coping mechanism one might have developed (people pleasing, addiction, violence) and then find ways to undo step by step. It's extremely hard work and usually takes years. its a shame you have been so dismissive of it. But some people just aren't ready.

Look at Pablo Escobar mum

I've got a criminal sibling always indulged by DM and excuse for actions and then another atrocious family member again, upset so many people and never ever reprimanded by her parents.