Based on this comment - have I been badly brought up?

[Canwehaveahotsummer]

There was a conversation at work between myself and two colleagues. We are all roughly the same age give or take 5 years. I’ll call them Sam, Hannah and me.

Sam was saying how she was going to visit her mum but how she’d have to eat lasagne again, as her mum always makes lasagne when she visits. She was saying how she hates lasange and it makes her want to gag.

I asked Sam why she doesn’t just kindly tell her mum that she doesn’t like lasagne and ask if she could make something else.

Sam and Hannah both looked at me like I had two heads. Sam said that she couldn’t say that.

Hannah then said that I would think that because I hadn’t been brought up well, like Sam had and so wouldn’t understand that you can’t say things like that.

It played on my mind a bit because I do have doubts and insecurities about my background, but I don’t think I’m rude or behave in a rude way.

When I first met my now dh he was making poached eggs for us a lot when I stayed at his house. He made the eggs very very runny, and they were getting more runny each time to the point that they were quite slimy. I mentioned it once and said I liked mine slightly more cooked. He got really upset and said that I was out of order and how if someone makes you food you should eat it and shut up whether you like it or not.

I don’t see it that way, so for example I always made scrambled eggs and they were a bit shit. Dh (around the same time as he got upset with me) showed me how to make them a better way and I took it on board as they were definitely better ‘his way’.

I certainly wouldn’t go round to anyone’s house and start criticising their cooking. But if a very close family member such as my mum or Dh was making repeatedly something that I hated I would gently ask if we could perhaps have something else.
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I don’t know, I mean tbh the thing with dh was probably 16 years ago now, but I’ve always remembered it and have also noticed that our communication styles with have been very different over the years (that’s a whole other thread). But like dh will forget to say please and thank you but would force a meal down that he absolutely hated rather than be rude.

I wouldn’t have even got into that situation with my mum because I’d have told her from the start.

I wouldn’t be nasty. I’d say something lie “thank you for cooking a lovely meal, I really appreciate it, do you think we could maybe have a roast/spag bol/salad next time I’m not a big fan of lasagne generally.

My sister for example will offer me a hot chocolate when I visit. I’ll say I’m not keen on hot chocolate thank you, but would love a coffee/tea/water.

I always say please and thank you and speak gently 🤷‍♀️

Yes and it’s bloody weird not to know what your own children like and dislike.

No, you haven’t been badly brought up.

You communicate directly and assertively and with consideration and humility. You value the same in others.

You don’t slag off your mum’s cooking to work colleagues.

Women shouldn’t be brought up to be agreeable and voiceless.

Hannah was very rude to you - and also dead wrong.

It would certainly not be reasonable to say what you had suggested - be diplomatic sure, but it is not rude / impolite to say that you prefer something else.

Also, the whole concept of being 'brought up' is in itself a bit odd once you're past the age of, say 21. Adults tend to make their own choices about behaviour after that surely? Reminds me of my now ex who, when questioned about something he was doing, said 'it's the way I was brought up' - he was 60!! 😂

The comment about how you were brought up was rude, no matter what the context.

'Eating what you are given' really depends on whether there is a host/guest dynamic (which there sometimes can be even with close family) or a casual dynamic.

A host/guest dynamic means you it's good manners to eat whatever you are given (unless there are health or cultural reasons why you can't). A casual dynamic, which is more usual with close family, means it's fine to make your preferences known.

How is it ageist asking a question about people's upbringing? Led by my own experience of having it happen to me?

Nowhere have I said all people of that era (or in my case, their children) are the same. It can be hard to escape childhood influences.

This. I get being as polite as you can if you are a guest in someone's house who you don't know very well. I get the "mum making my favourite" thing where it gets difficult to fess up but if Mum isn't suffering from dementia, surely there are ways to politely redirect?
In a restaurant there is no way I will eat what I don't like. If there is a problem with the dish I will comment, if I just don't like it, and am asked, I will say its not to my taste. If there is any negative reaction at all to my comments, that restaurany won't see me again.
In any circumstance, I certainly won't eat more than I want to.

It sounds as though the OP's parent(s) were feeders and he has been taught to show love/respect by eating what they give him, same with Sam. I think Hannah's comment is incredibly rude. You might like to give all three some information on feeder parents.

Yes, she literally said “you wouldn’t understand because you haven’t been brought up well like Sam has”.

It played on my mind because I did grow up on a council estate with barely any money. Whereas most of my colleague (and dh) were more middle class.

I don’t go around going on about where I grew up, but perhaps it shows.

Hannad sounds pig ignorant and dim.

Really weird not to be able to say Id rather not eat lasagne.
I certainly wouldn't think that rude from a family member.

Hannah sounds like a horrible person to say that, down right nasty too.

Stay away from her.

I'd much rather Dd told me she didn't like a certain food than was bitching about me to her friends because I tried to do something nice for her, that she didn't appreciate.

I wouldn't give their comments another thought.

It sounds as though Sam is actually scared of her mother if she can't tell her that the meal that she serves every single time Sam visits actually makes her sick.

I accommodated all my children's food likes and dislikes when they were growing up and my daughter's vegetarianism and then veganism. I would hate to think that they were forcing down food that made them gag because they didn't feel as though they could tell me.

Surely, a good host wants people to enjoy the food that they have cooked.

"EilishMcCandlish · Today 08:04

Are they much older than you?"

My 15 year old niece visits for dinner once a week and I cook lots of things, different to what she gets at home and very rarely she'll say " thank you Auntie but can we not have that again please? " if she does then I'm not offended. It wasn't to her taste and that's fine.

To be honest, they were really rude to you. I would not be happy if a colleague said something like that to me. If they come from more priviledged backgrounds and they know that your upbringing was working class on a council estate, their behaviour to you was unacceptable.

They sound like a pair of unkind snobs with no manners. I hope Sam chokes on her mum's lasagne.

I had a VERY traditional “good” upbringing and can assure you that I am able to tell my mother if I don’t like a particular dish without the world shuddering. The whole point of “manners” is to deal with these situations in a way that doesn’t upset. “Badly brought up” is the sort of thing my mothers generation would say as a hushed aside to describe someone doing something unspeakable (like have an affair or cheating at bridge) they disapproved of. Your friends sound unusual and unkind.

As for the poached egg, I’m totally with you on the texture when not cooked enough and requesting an egg done to your taste is very very normal. Insisting someone should eat one underdone to their taste is mean at best.

Always told mine that they don't have to eat it if they don't like it and they can stop when they are full. Better than suffering through meals like we did (liver, boiled parsnips yuk, ) and still having to finish everything on my plate even when full.

I want my children to feel loved and valued as a person and that they can say no. If they can't say no to little things they can't say no to the big things as easily either.

It's a question, trying to get to a place of understanding. You are assuming my thought process. As I am now at the upper end of the working population age wise, it is unlikely that these women are older than me. They could however, be older than OP. Someone's age is a fact, not a judgement.

If you can't tell your nearest and dearest what food you like or don't like, who can you tell?

And how can you end up thinking that telling your mum you don't like lasagne is a massive social faux pas, but telling a work colleague that their upbringing was lacking - i.e, critisizing them and their parents - is the height of politeness?

I’m curious about Sam and Hannah’s somment, the essence of which is “We are better than you”. I wouldn’t consider people friends after this sort of comment.

Sounds like Sam has a controlling mother and Hannah doesn't know what good manners are. You've no reason to doubt yourself OP. Feel sorry for them.

This is interesting! My children will tell me if they don’t like something I’ve cooked. I prefer this as I don’t want to waste time and energy cooking food that’s not enjoyable. The same with friends. However, they won’t tell their father if he cooks something not to their taste as he gets offended and a bit sulky. I always told my Mum growing up if I wasn’t keen on something and she was fine with it- we all have different tastes. However I wouldn’t have told my late MIL as she would’ve been offended and upset and taken it personally!
I’d rather an honest and authentic relationship any day. It’s odd in my opinion to have an ego so fragile that you can’t take an honest opinion.

Nailed it! This is what I’d say to them if it’s brought up again.

Of course it is ok to express food preferences. The nuance is in how you communicate that and willingness to be a bit flexible and polite if you are served something that isn't exactly how you like it (with exceptions of course for allergies or religious/belief restrictions).

Be proud of your background. Most people who grew up in council housing and without much money have had a great upbringing. Upbringing’s to do with learned values (community, kindness, generosity, trust) rather than material things.