For refusing to go to Church?

[TheGreyPony]

Me and DP have been together for 4 years and are newly engaged.

My family is atheist and DPs family is catholic (DP is not practicing any religion)

DPs family go to church every Sunday and special occasions (Easter, Christmas…)

DP doesn’t go to church expect for on Christmas Eve, which is mother states is extremely important to her.

She has asked me every year if I will go to church at Christmas with them, and I explained me and my family have our own traditions and it’s not something I want to give up.

She keeps asking DP and I to go to church on a Sunday with her. She says how much it would mean to them, and how sad she is that DP doesn’t take his faith seriously.
DP genuinely just can’t be bothered to go, and i genuinely could not care less about Church or anything to do with religion.

I am not “anti-religion” I just don’t believe it in at all and do find the whole thing ridiculous (don’t worry, I’d never say that to his family) I worry she blames me for DPs lack of faith, but I also find myself biting my tongue whenever something good happens (like I get a promotion) and she tells me to thank god - because I think, I did that on own, not God.

AMBU for refusing to go? I know it’s important to her, but I just don’t like religion and I feel like it would be more disrespectful to lie.
Should I pretend, and go to church to keep the peace? Or be true to myself?

Okay - well what DOES it mean? Given that I’m an atheist and you’re not, I would have thought I was in a better position than you to address this. But apparently not.

So come on - enlighten us. I’m SO keen to hear what you have to say.

DH is from an atheist family, they were so horrible about us having a church wedding. DH grew up thinking like them about religion, very dismissive and nasty about it but was open minded when I asked for a church wedding because it means a lot to me and my family. We met the priest and he was so welcoming to my husband, agreeing to marry in a church meant no commitment to the church. DH has since been to every Christmas and Easter, weddings, funerals and other rites of passage and has found it really eye opening. Mostly that what he was brought up to sneer at was wrong, not that it makes faith and religion right for him. If it's not important to your husband then I don't see a reason to go, but I don't think it would hurt for you to go once or twice a year and feel part of that side of the family. That being said my mum would never ask my husband to go to church, so there's nothing wrong with politely saying you'd prefer for her not to ask you. Never mind a church wedding, they're likely to be keen on Catholic schools and of your df went to one, especially a good one then you're going to have to contend with that because in most cities the catholic schools are excellent. It seems fine on principle to say no, but when your child has to go somewhere awful it's funny how it makes people reflect on their choices, just speaking for people I know who are finding themselves in that situation.

It really doesn’t. You simply can’t accept that atheists don’t define your god in a particular because we don’t believe in him. It shouldn’t be that difficult a concept for you.

I already have on the thread, or rather the humanists have. My point being a considered and well researched atheist would know all this. They might still reject or not believe in God, but can still have a considered, knowledgeable and thoughtful discussion on these things. I'm not going to engage in a discussion with someone who is unable to.

Yes there was another thread this week about MIL talking to her grandchildren about God.

She will also put you under pressure to get married in a church. I would just be very clear that I was an atheist and going to church is not something you do.

@WaterFeatures And yet, despite being ‘fed and watered’ you’re still burbling on about Islam to other posters, without appearing to be sure what you mean. (19.14 Sat 12th April)

What on earth are you talking about?

I am sure you have me mistaken with another poster.

Between my post of 18.49 yesterday (when I came back to the thread "fed & watered" after engaging in charity work) and your post of 19.14. the same day I did not mention Islam at all.

You seem confused.

but when your child has to go somewhere awful it's funny how it makes people reflect on their choices, just speaking for people I know who are finding themselves in that situation.

You realise they aren’t reflecting on their belief in a Catholic God but in whether they should have been more on the ball about gaming the system?

'god' and religion to me

Man made concepts used to control people by fear, hate and intimidation - aka do xyz or go to hell

An organization that protects pedophiles and sees women as nothing more than house slaves and breeding stock

A concept used to bully and belittle those who dont believe

An easy out for people who cant stand on their own 2 feet and blame religion for their opinions that may not sit well with most people like women belong in the home, abortion is wrong, being gay is wrong type opinions

but when your child has to go somewhere awful it's funny how it makes people reflect on their choices, just speaking for people I know who are finding themselves in that situation.

We (Me, DH and our 15yo DD) chose homeschooling over the local religious schools when it came to pulling her out of public due to bullying

The local religious schools didnt even make our radar cos she didnt want to, in her words, waste her time in religious lessons and we didnt want to spend good money that will eventually make its way back to the church connected to the school

You mean you don’t want a discussion with someone who won’t concede to your version of atheism - which is basically just “Oh, you don’t properly understand god”.

Just ask her

it would mean a lot to me if you didn’t go to church on Sunday, as an atheist it’s important and I hope you can respect my wish for you not to attend church

Just tipping my hat to your use of "batshittery".
Lovely stuff 🤣🤣🤣

4 years of this? Every Sunday? And this woman still hasn’t got the message?

either the op is massively exaggerating
or
she and her husband have the backbone of a jellyfish and are unable to string a coherent sentence together
or
The MIL has a very serious cognitive problem

I am going to guess it’s number 1

@Ineedcoffee2021

Wow!

So many negative and wrong viewpoints I almost don't know where to start.

blame religion for their opinions that may not sit well with most people like women belong in the home,

I am curious to know what religion you think advocates this ??

I'm guessing it's 2. That either her or, more likely her fiance keep saying 'maybe' or the fiance is making out he can't go to church because OP doesn't want to go, instead of having to tell his mum he doesn't want to go to church either.

Personally, I'd go at Christmas if we were spending Christmas with them. It can be a nice, Christmassy thing to do, even if it is a bit dotty. More than that is unreasonable and I think you are right to refuse. (And Christmas is your choice - no criticism intended there. I'm just saying what I would do).

For what it's worth I don't think there is anything wrong with attending church as a non-believer in of itself. Sometimes people are exploring their faith, sometimes you're visiting someone and it makes sense to go along with their routine if you're comfortable. All fine and good.

The issue here is that you need to set realistic expectations with MIL.

How? my viewpoints are mine, how I see religion
Did i demand others see it the same? no

Most of them - a womans place is to serve and be the house slave for a man
Christianity, islam, all the same broken down
She is 2nd to a man, not an equal, seen as an incubator

how about you name a religion where a woman is equal

@Ineedcoffee2021 how about you name a religion where a woman is equal

I think you need to be more specific about what you mean by "equal". Many people understand "equal" to mean "interchangeable" which is incorrect.

Just because members of a particular religion are not fulfilling the same duties as the opposite sex doesn't mean they are "unequal".

Too many people have bought into the silly feminist notion that women should be able to do anything a man can do - they can't.
Men will always have a physical advantage over women, as most men are bigger and stronger than most women (unless you want to include Danny De Vito v Venus Williams)

If a woman is built like a brick outhouse and she can go down the mines and shovel coal like a man, then she should be allowed to do that (and be paid the same).
However, I doubt many women would sign up for type of employment.

Women in UK have been discriminated against in various sectors of society over the years. However, this was not due to religion but to laws made by Parliament.

As late as the early 1970's no woman in UK was allowed to take out a mortgage unless a male guarantor co-signed the loan. So the law was saying effectively that women were a bad risk and too stupid to manage their own money. This was despite women managing their own housekeeping budgets for years !

The Race Relations Act was passed in1968 (followed by the Equality Act 2010) but the Sex Discrimination Act wasn't passed until 1975 (also incorporated into the Equality Act). So parliament saw fit to pass a law making one race equal to another before they passed a law making one sex equal to another.
Religion had nothing to do with this.

So, moving back to religion.
My great aunt was a Deaconess in the Church of England.
She assisted in administering sacraments, leading public worship, and offering pastoral care to the congregation, including visits to the sick and housebound. She also played a role in preaching and teaching, preparing people for sacraments, and leading prayer groups and Bible studies.

So it would not be fair to say she was of less value than the Vicar because she wasn't ordained, she just had slightly different ( and equally valuable) roles.

HTH

https://www.mrsl.co.uk/about-us/knowledge-hub/women-mining-then-now

it wasn't actually illegal for women to have bank accounts and mortgages. The male dominated banks would not allow it!
hth

@godmum56 it wasn't actually illegal for women to have bank accounts and mortgages. The male dominated banks would not allow it!

Maybe that is true but the inequality wasn't due to religious factors.

Re mining - again, nothing to do with religious issues.

@Apricotfuzz

God is whatever is the locus of your values - your decision making, your North star... if God does not sit in that throne, something else does. Often money, or pleasure

Can you appreciate and believe that for some people the ‘locus of their values’ and the driving force behind their decision making is a desire to be a kind, loving person who cares for others and that they don’t need to believe in God for that to be true?

So, moving back to religion.
My great aunt was a Deaconess in the Church of England.
She assisted in administering sacraments, leading public worship, and offering pastoral care to the congregation, including visits to the sick and housebound. She also played a role in preaching and teaching, preparing people for sacraments, and leading prayer groups and Bible studies.
So it would not be fair to say she was of less value than the Vicar because she wasn't ordained, she just had slightly different ( and equally valuable) roles.

But she didn’t have the option to have the same role as the vicar - because of her gender! You can’t claim she was equally valued in her “slightly different” role when she was actively prevented from taking the alternative role because she was female.

so churches and religion have zero to do with societal expectation?