To tell child not to be in any photos without her sister

[SpanishFork]

I have issues with my in-laws excluding my eldest daughter who is my husband’s stepdaughter from photographs. This upsets my eldest.

BiL has two sets of children with the elder ones in their twenties, I saw FiL talking to one of them and the nephew then chatted to the elder siblings and cousins and they then took turns to take photos. When my eldest took the photos instructions were given to her and it is ALWAYS these photos that appear at in-laws so pictures of bio grandchildren without my daughter.

On Easter Saturday can I instruct my five year old not to stand in any photos with her cousins without her sister?

Quite a backstory you've constructed here. You seem to have a vivid capacity for invention. If someone doesn't type something, never mind, you'll make it up anyway.

And again, you need to stop conflating words that have different meanings. Your moral take on the behaviour of the ILs is irrelevant. She hasn't asked for that and it makes no difference to the situation. This doesn't mean OP leaving her DH isn't possible, because everyone knows divorce exists.

Those are two very separate things. I haven't said whether she should or shouldn't leave DH, incidentally, and nobody would value my take on that any more than they do yours. Eyes would glaze over either way.

Ultimately, there are aspects of this situation that OP is stuck with. And she is asking for advice on how to manage them. One of them is the clear, ongoing influence that ILs are going to have in DD1s life whatever OP does.

If you were familiar with Tandora's contributions on the sex and gender discussion board, none of this would come as a surprise to you.

Oh hello

Eyes would glaze over either way

then why are you so intent with arguing with me about it ? If it was so irrelevant you wouldn’t be so invested in engaging.

Ultimately, there are aspects of this situation that OP is stuck with

There are aspects she are stuck with. These aspects are that her DD’s dad isn’t involved, this hurts her DD. She sees her sibling has relationships that she doesn’t. That hurts.

There are aspects she is not stuck with

• eg that she has blended a family with in-laws who don’t view her DD as family and are behaving in ways that are hurting Dd.

She is asking for advice on how to manage that.
I’m offering it.

My advice won’t solve the first, it will solve the second.

You don’t have to agree with my advice and you are free to ignore it and/ or glaze your eyes if you wish.

@Tandora they aren't a blended family of the type that can unblend. That would only be an option if the second DD for example was DH's child from a previous relationship. Then unblending would just mean "raising the kids together isn't working, we should live separately/move out".

If DH was an awful stepfather then you'd be left with the nuclear option of breaking up the family, but in this family that means that elder DD loses another father figure and experiences another family breakdown, and younger DD also experiences family breakdown.

You can separate nuclear families and you can separate blended families.

The in-laws aren’t the problem, they are just an example of the problem.

The problem is a young girl reaching an age where she has become very aware she doesn’t have a father or grandparents, and she is struggling with that. Entirely understandably.

She was distressed when her doctor was told, she’s upset by her friends going away with their grandparents and she is hurt and upset when she sees her half sister with her grandparents and cousins.

As @UndermyShoeJoe says, she needs help with that. Not destroying another family through separation, not being included in a few photos, but actually addressing the core issue.

It's not the same as unblending though. It's more harmful as unblending is when you have tried to put two families together, it hadn't worked and you return to separate family units. They have a shared child so it's more complicated than that.

The in-laws aren’t the problem, they are just an example of the problem.

Ultimately this is the core of the issue. There is a division of opinion on this thread into those who think the in-laws aren’t the problem, and those who think the in-laws are very much part of the problem.
I don’t think anyone believes they are the whole problem, but myself and others, think they are a substantial part in their own right, and are making things substantially worse.

Yes I agree, definitely more complicated. Perhaps “unblending” isn’t the right word.

I appreciate why this would upset you. From experience please don't make your 5 year old responsible for adults' issues. If you need to address it, speak to the adults involved.

I'm not arguing with you over whether OP should divorce DH or not. You clearly want that, to the extent that you've invented a backstory to fill in the absence of such argument from me, but that's tough shit really. You can't have it.

I see you're not trying to argue that your moral takes will solve anything. That's good, it's progress. But as others have pointed out, neither will your advice about splitting, because the ILs and their relationship with DD2 will continue to have influence in DD1s life for the foreseeable, whatever OP does. OP is not stuck with DH as a husband, she very much is stuck with him as a co parent.

😆

me: there are two issues, x and y. My advice will not solve the first; it will solve the second.

You: I see you're not trying to argue that your
moral takes will solve anything

I think this sums up our interaction very neatly and aptly.

Goodbye 👋

(Ps Exactly like kind of tactics I’m met with on threads about trans issues that @MissScarletInTheBallroom was referring to 😆),

Without wading too far into an argument, I do think this is an almost impossible situation to reconcile. If I think my morher is toxic, I can not take my children to see her. And that’s in my control and then she’s effectively outwith the family. But the problem here is that the younger child has something that the older child doesn’t - but would desperately like to - have: an involved paternal family. And it must sting to see her that her younger sister has that and she doesn’t. The people who are actually “in the wrong” here are the father and his family, not the in-laws who appear to be kind to an unrelated child but don’t want to treat her as a grandchild (which she isn’t). But the father and his family are AWOL and can’t be forced to step up. So, yes, OP can stop her DD1 seeing her DD2’s grandparents - but that doesn’t stop DD1 knowing that her sister has those people in her life and she doesn’t. That’s true even if DD1 never sees them again in her life - she’ll still know that they exist and that her sister has those relationships. And that’s also true whether the OP divorces her DH or not; it’s unconscionable that the younger child should be separated from loving family relationships just because her older half sister doesn’t have the same and I’m quite sure the DH wouldn’t allow it to happen. Very tricky for the OP and her older DD.

You: invent loads of bollocks and attribute to a person you're having a discussion with who did not say that or anything like it.

Me: no

You: more fantasist ramblings.

This is what actually sums up our interaction very neatly and aptly. We shall see if you manage to stick that goodbye!

Agree to some extent, the child needs help to overcome this.

But long term what should she do? Always feel like an outsider because of something that's not her fault?

The OPs Dh and his parents need to step up. It's not hard to treat children equally

The OPs Dh and his parents need to step up. It's not hard to treat children equally

Correct.

Yes, that's what she does on the sex and gender topic too.

As well as using words according to her own personal definition rather than the usual one, accusing people of saying things they did not actually say, and trying to drag everyone down rabbit holes on unrelated points because she can't make a coherent point about the subject actually under discussion.

Also appearing to believe that there is no limit to how much someone should be upset or disadvantaged if she perceives it to be to the benefit of the group or person she thinks should be prioritised.

Actually the below is exactly what happens on sex and gender topics when you try to have a reasonable and productive exchange with those who disagree with you:

*me: there are two issues, x and y. My advice will not solve the first; it will solve the second.

[trying to establish points of consensus - x- as well as the point of divergence - y - in order to establish clarify and enable a productive exchange.]

You: I see you're not trying to argue that your
moral takes will solve anything. that is progress*.

A quintessential example.

This also frequently happens on the step parenting threads.

You see I'm not sure that's the answer. Basically I do think that they should be nice and kind to SGD because she is a young child with feelings so of course they should.

However, unless DH is actually adopting SDD there will always be some differences in the relationship and denying them isn't always without consequence.

I would argue it would also be quite harmful to say "of course you're our grandchild" and then later in life DD finds they have an ISA for her sister, maybe her sister gets an inheritance, etc.

That's why I think it's better that these DGP are "your sister's grandparents", perhaps they're nice people but no need for them to be a big part of elder DD's life.

I'd also say that as a family, if these are the only extended family who are actively involved, there needs to be a balance for the whole family unit in what they do. For example, I don't think it would be ideal if this ends up in a place where e.g. DH and younger DD spend a most Xmas/Easter with DGP separately. There needs to be a balance whereby even if they are the most involved SGP they/DH's family don't need to be central to everything for younger DD, either.

Can I just say that this is a really bloody hard situation. Even as an adult I find it hard when there are big differences between what I can give my children and what my Dsd's family can offer to her. For example, we don't have involved parents on me and DH's side or close aunties/uncles. (I did have a wonderful grandmother who has sadly passed away). The difference is of course much more obvious when children are half siblings as it feels very close to home. As parents and stepparents it is so often down to us to manage children's feelings and experiences the best we can with what we've got.

(meant to quote @Curlycurio post)

Yes I can see there are balances to be struck and complications to these things.

I’m not sure cutting a child out of a group family photo is the balance?

The complications that inevitably come with these things is also why I often feel that if this is the attitude of the extended family and if it is hurting the child, then there may be no other solution than to separate/ disengage- if adults aren’t willing to change.

I come from a family where my grandmother embraced two step children- that she continues to mother after one divorce and one widowing. These step children have equal status in her will, along with her biological children. To me that is a healthy model for a blended family. (I also have my own personal experience which I won’t go into as outing).
I totally accept there can be other healthy models of blended families where relationships are much more separated of course - but if the child is being hurt/ made unhappy by exclusionary behaviour then I think that is in itself evidence that , in that particular family, it’s not working. And that can cause lasting pain to an already vulnerable child. I’m not sure therapy to make her ok with treatment that hurts her is the answer.

Long term, I would hope that the counselling would help her accept that although she lacks extended family, that is THEIR failing and not hers.

A PP was most eloquent about the impact of being abandoned by her father had on her, and this is why counselling seems to me to be the best approach.

She will always be on the fringe of her sister’s extended family because she isn’t related to them. Wishing it won’t make it so. But if she were happy and secure in herself and her place in her own family, that wouldn’t matter.

Just like it wouldn’t matter if she needs to tell a doctor she doesn’t have information about the father’s health, and it wouldn’t matter that Olivia in Guides is going to Spain with her Nana or Tom’s granddad is teaching him to drive.

DH’s family treat her kindly, buy her presents. But they aren’t her father and grandparents and don’t pretend they are.

I don’t think the OP can be ok with her husband not being called Dad while at the same time wanting his parents to be Grandma and Granddad.