For not wanting my children to ‘learn’ Christianity?

[AmusedLemur]

I use learn loosely, I don’t mean learn, I mean be spoken to about God as if it is fact, when I myself do not believe.

context

I am an atheist. My husband was raised by a very catholic family, however he himself is not a practicing catholic (he doesn’t attended church, never prays, etc)

He says he does believe in a God, but it’s not something he lives his life by / he thinks about too regularly.

This has never been an issue for us because mainly we’re on the same page. Yes he will take his mother and father to church on Christmas Eve, but that is as about as religious as he gets.

Let me preface this by saying I have an amazing relationship with his family. I love them. We got married in a church to please them, and when we had our baby (Gia - 2) we got her Christened so they wouldn’t worry.

I have no problem with them talking about their love for God in front of me or anything like that. But, Gia is now of an age where she is taking things in. And they tell her that God is the reason she is here, to be thankful for him, he gave her life and everything she has. More has been said, but I’m not there when it is, so I’m not entirely sure what.

For a 2 year old, she obviously believes when her Grandmother tells her this and so comes home and asks me if I’ve thanked God, tells me she loves him, and so on and so forth.

I don’t want to correct Gia by saying God isn’t real, because it’s her choice to believe. But am I being unreasonable by not wanting my in laws to teach her that God is real from such a young age?

That was my thought too.

By the way OP , you have used your daughter's name in your last post - you might want to as HQ to edit this.

Yeah that's not remotely patronising.

Ick.
Ick.
Ick.

You can tell a child some people believe and some don't. That opens up her world for debate and questions and choosing her own path.

'hes not real' shuts her world down and creates...horrible judgy adults.

You can tell Gia that you don’t believe in God rather than say that God isn’t real because that may be repeated to your MIL and cause drama for you. If Gia asked me that question then I would have told her that I didn’t believe in God so I didn’t give thanks to him which is both factual and isn’t a negative comment on MIL.

People believing in different things is a difficult one to explain so as Gia is 2, I’d say something like she thinks chocolate ice cream is the best flavour while you think that strawberry ice cream is the best flavour (2 different opinions that are valid)

I think that you were wrong to christen Gia because the ILs clearly see it as you and your h taking the faith seriously rather than doing it yourself shut them up. Isn’t a Christening a public declaration that the child will be starting their commitment to Christianity ? I know that many in the UK do it as a party or school entrance reasons.

How much unsupervised time does Gia spend with her grandparents ? I would not be impressed with your situation tbh

I'm assuming at age 2 she is not questioning you a lot. However when it comes up or if she says something you respond by saying " some people believe. Xzy" and as said before broaden her horizons with other faiths and non faiths. She will work it out herself as long as it is all presented for her to consider.

She can learn that grandma and grandad believes this but mum doesn't and dad doesn't really know. She can make up her own mind.

I get why it makes you uncomfortable it would me and I have a belief (not Catholic) however I do agree what others have said is you won't change them. So best bet is to show your dd all the possibilities that are out there. Be open and honest with her this will also influence your further relationship with her in a possitive way.

I wouldn't be happy about being around people talking about God all the time. I was brought up Catholic and my family on one side are practising Catholics, but they rarely talk about it.

However, I probably wouldn't say anything unless it became intimidating.

If you don't believe in it, then it has no more power than an academic exercise. Balance it out with learning about all the other organised religions in age appropriate ways.

You believe he's real. OP doesn't believe he is real (or believes he doesn't exist).
They're both positions of faith. OP can say she doesn't believe the same thing as Grandma believes.

I'm not going to debate faith with you. Or god. Plenty of people believe in a loving god. Maybe find a minister or a rabbi and ask them why people believe in a loving god if you have questions.

But plenty of people do.

Perhaps it's confirmation bias. If you look for control and fear and sexism, you find it. If you look for compassion and gifts and love, you find it also.

Essentially, I agree with you. We always took the stance of saying "some people believe..." etc.

However, the OP telling the child that God isn't real is no different from the grandparents telling the child that God is real. Both are presenting their beliefs/opinions as fact. And I guess that is the point that the OP is making, really.

Would you say "ick" to what the grandparents are telling the child about God as well?

We are not religious but my son who has ASD believes in god because he attended a CofE school for a year before he moved to a special school. I have always been very open that “some people believe in god, others don’t. You can if you want, I don’t though”

I don’t want to correct Gia by saying God isn’t real, because it’s her choice to believe

With respect, she's 2. She simply doesn't have the capacity to "believe" in the way you're describing - she believes it like she'll believe that Father Christmas is real - because an adult told her that.

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it. The concept of God is abstract, even more so for a child, so in her head, this God that loves her is like an invisible grandpa. So long as they aren't trying to instill any sense of shame into her, or use God as a threat, I would just ask your husband to ask them to tone it down a bit. Get him to do it as it's their family.

Edit: forgot to add - I have three boys who all went to a C of E primary and now secondary. I'm an atheist, and just took the stance that some people believe, I don't, it's up to them to make up their own minds but they don't have to do that now. Honestly I don't know if any of them believe in god, but they're certainly not interested in religion other than as a GCSE topic.

At age 2, I'd just change the subject ASAP whenever DD brought it up; or if she insisted on an answer, say something to the effect that this what Granny believes but you don't personally.

If it carries on when your child is older, I would be spending rather more time talking about the lack of evidence for the existence of a god, how historically people have felt a need to use that concept to account for a lot of stuff they don't understand, how there are hundreds of different versions of deities, and generally suggesting that she assess the evidence for herself.

But still. You chose a baptism (and a church wedding).
We/I wouldn't if I had to be fingers crossed or I would accept that grandparents would think that an element of religion is ok..

🤣🤣

Hmm...I'd see it as...Introducing something isn't the same as hiding something.

One thing is giving. The other, is arguably more like taking away.

Not believing in anything isn't the same as believing in something.

I suppose you could argue that the grandparents give her an introduction to faith. Which is a gift for many. If her parents say 'we don't believe', it doesn't take that opportunity away. It just also gives her - reason. Another gift.

But saying 'it's not real' takes away the gift of faith, ignores the gift of reason.

It feels, cold.

(And if course, is bigoted)

Its not contagious you know.

I had a very religious granny, spent many hours in church as a child. DS went to a school where there was a religious service 6 out of 7 days (it was a boarding school). Both of us emerged from this with no religious zeal whatsoever.

I'm sure the church wishes it was that easy!

Dont let this become a thing, she's 2, wait until she's 15. If she wants to become a nun then that's the time to worry. Chances are she won't!

Sounds a bit unreasonable to be honest.

You married in to a religious family and are expecting them to keep their belief from their grandchild. The normal response to this is to speak to your child explaining that different people have different beliefs her grandparents believe in god but you don’t so there are somethings you do differently.

A child is capable of understanding that different people will do things differently and as she grows up she will understand more and be capable of handling that understanding too.

It would be different if they were pushing views about severe consequences of actions on your child but this just sounds like regular practice of their religion. Do you think your PIL damaged your husband in raising him in that environment? If it didn’t harm him, why would it harm your daughter?

You’re over thinking it. Tell her that’s what granny believes and we are lucky to live in a country where people are free to believe what they like. But tell her you don’t believe these things.

I am in exactly the same situation as you and my children have chosen atheism but I have not pushed it on them. They are just rational beings.

Hiding something? You can't hide something if you don't believe it exists in the first place!

I'm sorry, but I don't think you can have it both ways. If it's wrong for atheists to present their beliefs as fact, then it's wrong for Christians or people of other faiths to do the same. One set of beliefs is not more valid than another.

Why is it exactly that you feel that religious beliefs should be privileged over non-religious beliefs? Does that apply to all religious beliefs or only Christian ones? And why is it that you feel that sharing a faith with a child is a positive gift whereas presenting a non-religious view of the world is seen as taking something away? I don't see it like that at all.

Personally, I think one of the greatest gifts that we can give our children is freedom from any kind of religious brainwashing. I'm much more in favour of exposing them to all beliefs and none, and then letting them find their own path.

I'm not sure why you found that so amusing, it's a valid point.

I don't see why you don't want to tell her you don't believe God isn't real. Your in-laws obviously have no qualms about peddling their beliefs so it's perfectly reasonable for you to state your point of view. Maybe encourage some discussion about the topic. I am genuinely curious how anyone can believe in a god, apart from being indoctrinated.

I would not worry about this, as she gets older she will make up her own mind. I went to several religious schools and Sunday school and I am not religious at all now. Whether we like it or not all religions and world history are intertwined and there is absolutely nothing to gain from avoiding learning about it.

I wouldn't overthink it, your daughter is 2 and is just repeating what she has been told.

That said, I would be having a word with your inlaws to cut down on the attempts at brainwashing. There is no need for them to be saying anything about God to your kid and I would find it irritating if nothing else.