For not wanting my children to ‘learn’ Christianity?

[AmusedLemur]

I use learn loosely, I don’t mean learn, I mean be spoken to about God as if it is fact, when I myself do not believe.

context

I am an atheist. My husband was raised by a very catholic family, however he himself is not a practicing catholic (he doesn’t attended church, never prays, etc)

He says he does believe in a God, but it’s not something he lives his life by / he thinks about too regularly.

This has never been an issue for us because mainly we’re on the same page. Yes he will take his mother and father to church on Christmas Eve, but that is as about as religious as he gets.

Let me preface this by saying I have an amazing relationship with his family. I love them. We got married in a church to please them, and when we had our baby (Gia - 2) we got her Christened so they wouldn’t worry.

I have no problem with them talking about their love for God in front of me or anything like that. But, Gia is now of an age where she is taking things in. And they tell her that God is the reason she is here, to be thankful for him, he gave her life and everything she has. More has been said, but I’m not there when it is, so I’m not entirely sure what.

For a 2 year old, she obviously believes when her Grandmother tells her this and so comes home and asks me if I’ve thanked God, tells me she loves him, and so on and so forth.

I don’t want to correct Gia by saying God isn’t real, because it’s her choice to believe. But am I being unreasonable by not wanting my in laws to teach her that God is real from such a young age?

I wouldn’t want anyone talking to my child about any religions. I despise it.

Let your child be exposed to many ways of thinking and living. No harm will come of it

What are you worried about?

different people believe different things about all kinds of things - religions, politics, culture, football.

your dd will go through life experiencing alternative points of view.

shielding her is a mistake

BTW I’m an atheist married to a catholic

@Boredlass then I assume you didn’t have your child christened

This. They are foregoing the hypocrisy and doing what Catholic grandparents of a catholic child should do invoking a love for the holy trinity.

I do think you are overthinking it. This faith is your child‘s religious heritage and culture (and it is) and it will do her no harm to understand it. By baptising her you’ve opened that door. You could have stood firm and then this would be moot.
Also your daughter will in time decide for herself whether she has a faith or not. Your atheism or their Catholicism will have very little bearing on that. Just smile and carry on.

Its there right at the heart of Christianity, you can read about it at length in Christian books, I have heard several sermons on the subject, and heard a lot of Christians I know talk about doubt, both individually and in groups.

I don't know enough about this subject in other religions, but its definitely a thing in Christianity.

Atheism is ubiquitous. Your child will be exposed to it enough to decide independently about God. After all, your husband grew up with his parents and isn’t a practicing Catholic. But maybe, through this paternal grandparental culture your child will learn gratitude and awe and wonder at the beauty of the world, while perhaps learning other skills and attitudes from your family, like reason.

Absolutely agree — doubt is very much a part of Catholic theology and is a cornerstone of faith.

I think the PPs who have suggested you allow your in-laws to share their faith (respectfully and with love) while also sharing your belief in no God with her is the best course forward. Your child will not be converted by the sheer force of her grandparents’ will!

The double standards here are appalling.

The MIL isn't "exposing DC to ideas / culture", she isn't "letting the child decide:, she's presenting it as fact.

The equivalent would be for an atheist GM to tell the child of a relgious DIL that gods are a made up story that adults tell themselves to make themselves feel better.

I really don't think it matters. 2 year olds will believe absolutely any old shit - they don't have any critical thinking skills and are prewired to accept anything on trust from adults they like.

She'll grow out of it as long as you're not backing it up. Just tell her that her grandparents believe that, but you don't. Expose her to lots of mythology, tell her that humans have always made up lots of stories to explain things they don't understand about the world. Don't draw any distinction between Bible stories and stories about Odin or Zeus and she'll get it all by herself.

(Anyway reading lots of mythology and Bible stories is how I came to the conclusion as a child that as they obviously couldn't all be true there was no logical reason to think one was true and not the others).

You can also teach her about scientific explanations for things. She'll see for herself what makes more sense.

I'm not religious and want my children to make their own minds up about religion.

I do remember when age about 6, both of my children became Christians for about a year!!! They had leant about it in school from quite a pushy religious teacher. We had lots of discussions around people's different beliefs. I explained I'm not a Christian and don't believe, and why etc.. we talked about how the teacher does believe etc.. and I let my kids choose what to do! Both of them out-grew their Christianity within a year or two. I don't know what beliefs they hold now (age 13 and 10), as we've not discussed it for a while!

I think when people speak to children in quite factual ways about beliefs it's ok, as long as you can talk to them about it afterwards and give your own parental spin and discussions.

We celebrate Christmas and Easter because they are now family, and to some extent national, traditions! We always discuss religion at these times of year as the kids try and make sense of the origins of these festivals and traditions and we talk about how we've adopted aspects of them and left the religion behind! Somi expect at Easter we'll have some good discussions about religion again!

MIL presenting her ideas as 'fact' is not in contradiction with child being exposed to other ideas/ cultures!

Most commonly in life we are exposed to other ideas when the people who hold those ideas or cultures are presenting them as fact/ true.

Just like OP can present her views as 'fact' or 'true'.

We all raise our children in our own values. We all 'indoctrinate' our children. I have a strong view that we are all animals, apes to be precise. Arising from this I tell my children that it is wrong to hurt or harm animals, but instead we should leave animals in peace to live out their own lives. I do not frame this as ' my belief only and other people think differently'. I tell them its wrong to kill or hurt animals and they must not do it. This is not the view of BIL or their Father, and they will be exposed to different ideas there. And that's okay. When they are old enough they will form their own ideas.

This!!!

I think people are missing my point. I have no issue with religion or with Gia being taught about it.
Hence why I had no problem with the Christening.

They can talk to her all day about God. I find issue with them telling her it, as though it is fact. Leading her to believe it as much as she believes the sky is blue.

I have no issues with her learning religion or even finding it! I have issue with her being taught (by someone she adores and trusts) that this is what is and there is no question.

Also, I think these days people get too caught up with metaphysics. For most of history, most people haven’t thought very much about the nature of God and whether God exists. They are a member of the religion their family and community are part of. They participate in it because that’s what people do. Religion serves many functions. This is partly why you opted for baptism. Letting grandparents share their culture and worldview is just the same. For what it’s worth, modern liberal democracy and the Enlightenment and even your atheism and the ability to live in a country with religious freedom emerged from Christian culture.

The problem is that it IS fact to religious people. So they can't talk about it any other way! It's fact to them like the sky is blue or the grass is green.

I'd just let it happen! Ensure you talk to your child in a factual way about how not everyone believes in god and you don't believe and some people believe in a different god.

As she gets older she'll be able to understand it all better! Lots of kids believe in Santa clause because it's spun as fact, but as they get older they are able to question. If you started offering a different spin on it from a young age, they'd realise sooner that it's not necessarily fact!

Just let it be and don't worry. She'll be exposed to so many different ideas as she gets older. At least you are aware of the exposure she's getting from mil and can offer alternatives at home. When she starts school you won't know what's being said!!

To them it is fact though
You can go in with this is what some people beleive approach
However i dont beleive this etc
And its fine to have different beleifs.

OP, just give your daughter a little credit. She's only 2 right now so of course she swallows what she's told. She will grow up, she will learn to think for herself, she will see for herself that her grandparents aren't right about everything (and neither is anyone).

For now it's okay to just say oh, I don't think that's true. Keep it light. It won't do her any harm because she will grow out of it.

Almost all 2 year olds believe in magic and the supernatural to a certain extent, but most 10 year olds don't unless all the important adults in their lives are pushing it. You know that you won't be pushing this, so relax.

We're a mixed faith kind of family too - DH's mum practising Anglican, my family Polish Catholic, I'm nominally Catholic but have my disagreements with the mainstream RC church, and DH is agnostic but doesn't practise any religion. We had a civil wedding but our kids were christened Catholic and they go to a Catholic school, and my mum and I take them to Mass some Sundays. DH never comes.

At your daughter's christening, your ILs will have been praying that she is brought up in the faith by you and your husband, and they will take that prayer seriously even if you don't. They will probably pray for you and your DH regularly and might pray for you to convert. (I know my mum does for my DH). You can't stop your ILs from practising their faith, and speaking to their granddaughter about God is part of that faith.

But, you can definitely think about how you explain the fact that they practise, and your DH doesn't practise but does believe, and you don't believe, to your daughter. Do you want to tell your daughter that your ILs' faith is a load of nonsense and you don't want her repeating anything about God under your roof? Do you want to explain that as an atheist, you don't need God to be a good person, but you do believe in [kindness/the beauty of science/love/whatever your values are] and when granny and grandad talk about God that's what they're really talking about? Do you want her to know that granny and grandad are very kind people who love her a lot, but some of what their church says in is in your opinion dangerous and wrong?

Once you have that sorted in your mind, you can start explaining it to her in an age appropriate way. At two, whatever you say will be really basic, but that's the same as explaining anything complicated to a young child.

They can talk to her all day about God. I find issue with them telling her it, as though it is fact. Leading her to believe it as much as she believes the sky is blue

Well of course they are going to talk to her about God as if He exists, as that is how they experience God. You can't expect them to frame it as an abstract or one option amongst many, any more that you will frame your core beliefs to your child in this way.

My view is it gives richness and depth to your child's experiences to get to experience someone with this faith. It will expand their understanding of their fellow humans.

Why do you find it so threatening that your child has this experience?

I was brought up by non-religious parents but sent to Methodist chapel and Sunday school (2 sessions, every Sunday) from age 3...

Until I declared that I didn't believe in it age 12 and was allowed not to go any more. OP, I wouldn't worry - most children develop their own awareness and she'll get exposed to the 5 major religions in compulsory RE at school - that doesn't half broaden a child's mind about religion in general.

Of course, the sky only appears blue because of Rayleigh scattering. Without it, it if we could see past it, the sky would be black. The Ancient Greeks didn’t have a word for blue. Instead, they described it as bronze coloured, because of the way bronze tarnishes. They were more interested in brightness and darkness than pigmentation. Language has a huge impact on thought. Then there are colour blind people who see it differently again. So, you see, even a fact as basic as ‘the sky is blue’ reflects cultural, biological and psychological differences.

I think it's a nice thing tbh. I think all children should be introduced to god, as in, a loving god. And can make their own minds up as they age. They are hardly going to find god if they've never been introduced. I mean, they might but, usually people with no faith in their background...remain uninterested in looking into it later in life. They don't have the time to do so or it just doesn't even enter their thoughts.

Open the world up for the child in the beginning. Have these discussions. About god, about history about passions and theology and art and everything. They'll be more inclined to broaden their horizons in adulthood. They should be given the right to know god and love him. Everyone deserves that right even if you don't believe in god. Just like everyone deserves to know as much of the world as they can, even if they can't fully contemplate it yet.

We guide our children, I would guide them to be curious, to know of the things passed down through generations. God is part of that. I'd hope when they grew up, they would curious and passionate and feel free to pursue god if they wished. Because I didn't hide him away in some box.

You are her mother and I would be correcting her and telling her God isn't real.