For not wanting my children to ‘learn’ Christianity?

[AmusedLemur]

I use learn loosely, I don’t mean learn, I mean be spoken to about God as if it is fact, when I myself do not believe.

context

I am an atheist. My husband was raised by a very catholic family, however he himself is not a practicing catholic (he doesn’t attended church, never prays, etc)

He says he does believe in a God, but it’s not something he lives his life by / he thinks about too regularly.

This has never been an issue for us because mainly we’re on the same page. Yes he will take his mother and father to church on Christmas Eve, but that is as about as religious as he gets.

Let me preface this by saying I have an amazing relationship with his family. I love them. We got married in a church to please them, and when we had our baby (Gia - 2) we got her Christened so they wouldn’t worry.

I have no problem with them talking about their love for God in front of me or anything like that. But, Gia is now of an age where she is taking things in. And they tell her that God is the reason she is here, to be thankful for him, he gave her life and everything she has. More has been said, but I’m not there when it is, so I’m not entirely sure what.

For a 2 year old, she obviously believes when her Grandmother tells her this and so comes home and asks me if I’ve thanked God, tells me she loves him, and so on and so forth.

I don’t want to correct Gia by saying God isn’t real, because it’s her choice to believe. But am I being unreasonable by not wanting my in laws to teach her that God is real from such a young age?

"Being reasonable" doesn't come into it.

If you read my post at 7.39 you'll see that OPs husband, being the baptised Catholic, agreed to undertake certain duties with regards to their child's/children's religious education.
This will have been explained during the pre-marriage sessions (pre Cana).
If both of them had been honest and refused to follow through with this (which they should have done) then the priest would have refused to marry them.

Grandma (as a Catholic) is aware of these obligations and is assuming that OP and her husband are as well.

It isn't Grandma's fault that her son and daughter-in-law have chosen to be duplicitous.

Irrelevant word salad.
Based on her&her DH's viewpoint, she believes her child shouldn't be raised in faith.

Talking to a tiny child about any god as a real thing is not tolerant and respectful of her position.

If religions and beliefs want tolerance, they need to start by understanding that it is a tolerance to holding the belief, not tolerance of pushing the belief on children uninvited/expecting others to follow the belief's teaching

She didn’t specify catholic wedding, just church wedding.
You can get married in any COE church just by being christened - you don’t need to jump through any hoops.

Furthermore, if you read her thread she has stated multiple times that her mother in law is not assuming they will follow faith?

She stated they have had open and honest conversations, and her issue is with how her mother is law is treating her daughter now.

I think a lot of people in this thread are (purposely) missing OPs point here and getting stuck on the christening. We need to take her word for it that that is not an issue.

As as she has stated, none of us, except her, know this woman.

Just to be clear, are you religious or an atheist?

Well, her dad believes in God and she is close to her grandparents who are Catholic. So most of her heritage is religious and she may choose to be. You are just of one belief of a multiple she may encounter in her life.

You're going to have to tell mil that she's fine to discuss God but not to present it as fact. Just explain you want her to make her own mind up when she's old enough. Fwiw my kids albeit now adults were all christened and we don't believe but it was the common thing to do.

@fiveIsNewOne You are assuming a parent owns the child. Many find dc make up their own minds. I don’t agree with brainwashing from any dimension and actually agree with @mathanxiety that going too far in any direction is not healthy because it loses respect for peoples views. These are legitimately held beliefs. We might not agree with them, but we respect them. When people have opposing views, dc do work out what suits them. DD sings in a chapel choir but isn't religious. Just enjoys singing. You can take what you want out of it!

@OneGreenDuck She didn’t specify catholic wedding, just church wedding.
You can get married in any COE church just by being christened - you don’t need to jump through any hoops.

So now we are going to get a backstory where OP reveals they got married in a C of E Church, a Unitarian Church or a Baptist Church ? 😄

Maybe OP can clarify if it was in fact a Catholic Church?

Regarding C of E marriages just being Baptised isn't sufficient. There needs to be a connection to the Parish. See here;

https://www.facultyoffice.org.uk/special-marriage-licences/couples/general-information-about-marriage-in-the-church-of-england/

I don't know what you mean by "jumping through hoops". A church marriage is a serious matter, it's not like joining a tennis club.

That’s just not true. DH and I are both christened but neither come from religious families (or are religious) we had a C of E church wedding by just proving we were christened.

It really is that simple and easy.

As for OP, obviously I can not speak for her. But as she has not mentioned any pre wedding lessons or chores she had to do, I assume she did the same as me and did a C of E wedding.

No, you are incorrect.

There are many shades of atheism. However, a large proportion will say that they reject the idea of an interventionist god/s.

Religions are like p*nises. It's fine to have one, but you should not be showing yours to other people's children.

@OneGreenDuck That’s just not true. DH and I are both christened but neither come from religious families (or are religious) we had a C of E church wedding by just proving we were christened.

I'm just giving you the rules, I don't write them.
If the minister concerned chooses to disregard them, that's up to him or her.

Some churches have a financial motive because there is a fee for a C of E Wedding. It is £567 if you marry in your own Parish and £675 if you marry away from home.
Then of course the minister gets the church decorated for free. As most weddings are on a Saturday the flowers will be sure to last until the next day.

There is no fee for a Catholic Wedding BTW

What has the fee got to do with anything 😆😆

Well said.

Agnosticism is the term generally used for those who don't have strong belief as to the existence of god/s.

Atheism is the term for those who believe that there are no god/s, at least in the traditional sense.

No wanting other people to attempt to indoctrinate your children into their particular brand of deism is not a radical position.

I am fed up with this idea that non religious people have to respect the ideas of the religious, but are not accorded the same respect in return.

I am not a Christian but I agree children should be taught about Christianity. But "learning about it" is not the same thing as being told it is a fact.

@OneGreenDuck What has the fee got to do with anything 😆😆

it's a financial incentive for ministers in C of E to marry anyone who rocks up waving a Baptismal Certificate.

The C of E doesn't have any standards any more. Some Vicars are so Liberal they'd marry two cats if the price was right. 🙄

The Catholic Church takes marriage it seriously, hence they have pre-Marriage Counseling.

You’re going off on a whole tangent there.

Why not start your own thread asking ‘AIBU for being upset that C of E charge a fee for marriage?”

My Muslim daughter goes to catholic school and performs hymns partakes in it ALL. Her belief system hasn't changed

I think it's fantastic she has believing grandparents teaching her from a young age.

Why is your atheism anymore superior to their faith?

My mum is an atheist.
My brother is a devout Christian and I am a Muslim.

You haven't got much say in it I'm afraid.

Once again, learning about it is not the same as having it presented as fact. MIL could teach her GD without attempting to indoctrinate her.

MIL could teach in a manner respectful to OP. Instead, she is teaching in a disreputable manner, after OP has gone to great lengths to be respectful of MIL's religion.

And OP actually does have a say in it. She is allowed to prevent her daughter from engaging in church activities and attempts at recruitment until her daughter is old enough to make her own decision.

She’s your child. Why arnt you being more pro-active in protecting her from something that you don’t believe in?

My children know what I believe in and it’s become our family values. I would be upset if anyone outside of this didn’t respect it and I would put measures in place if I was that serious about my beliefs - and I have. But then I’ve got a faith - so maybe it’s easier to embed a faith than the absense of one? I don’t know - but if it’s upsetting you that much maybe just go back to the drawing board and think about what you want your child to believe.

So if you believe there is nothing out there - then embed that in your family. Or science - then it’s science. Or if you really just want to let your child decide for themselves - you cannot be too angry if they are influenced by outside.

I must say - childhood is a magical time though - I know kids that believe in fairies and all sorts of crazy things - but you snap out of it eventually (well some do - I know adults that believe in wild things too).

I think it can be harder to embed arheism, because there's this cultural sense that we need to be apologetic for it.

And it does sound if she wants the child to decide for herself, but she also wants to be "fair", for want of a better word. OP seems to want to not push her own beliefs on her child, but her MIL is actively pushing contradictory beliefs.

What are you talking about?

You asked me a question and I answered it 🙄

@LameBorzoi MIL could teach in a manner respectful to OP. Instead, she is teaching in a disreputable manner, after OP has gone to great lengths to be respectful of MIL's religion.

Are you having a laugh ?

OP went through a sham Catholic Christening and admits the promises that she and her husband made about raising their child in the faith meant nothing.to them.

And you think that's "respectful"?

I am still waiting for OP to come back and clarify if she had a Catholic wedding or not. If she did then that means she (and her husband) lied to the Priest/Deacon for 6 weeks all through the preCana classes about their intentions.

Respectful ? I think not.

When OP and her DH are behaving like hypocrites it isn't surprising that Grandma is confused.