Why is ND a common excuse for poor behaviour now?

[PonderingCarefully]

To be clear, this isn't a bashing thread as I'm generally interested in views and reasonings. Posting here for traffic really.

I get ND is a huge thing now and way more people are being vocal about it being accepted in society. This i am in favour of but.... so often now, especially on MN/SM, you see people excusing or questioning if poor behaviour is a result of undiagnosed ND. For example, a partner withdrawing/saying hurtful things would usually be seen as abuse now it's are they on the spectrum? A friend who's taking advantage is no longer seen as a entitled CF but is said to need more patience incase they are ND.

Why is this? Is it now a society norm that you actually need to feel quilted into accepting this behaviour just incase there's something undiagnosed at play? Are we now going to start seeing abusers and bully's in a new light of "maybe it's not their fault" now?

@Jud3 that type of defensiveness doesn’t help though. You can’t shut down conversations just because it’s not in line with your thinking - which presumably is that every single person with diagnosed or non-diagnosed ND is neurodivergent.

Misdiagnoses happen all the time, especially in mental health which is similar to ND in that a diagnosis is often based on symptoms rather than biological factual tests.

Why not embrace mature adult conversation? You’re much more likely to influence people like that, rather than rolling your eyes trying to shut down the conversation.

Of course people are genuinely querying the huge increase in ND - it’s a huge social phenomenon that is having a huge impact on our public services. People are curious, that’s natural. It doesn’t mean people are being unkind.

@Hollowvoice

I really couldn't get het up about that if I was the family you were visiting.

I'd be more upset that I hadn't got to spend time with them, the DC, rather than thinking rude of them...but if staying in their room made them feel safe, rather than something they felt obliged to do then so be it.

that type of defensiveness doesn’t help though. You can’t shut down conversations just because it’s not in line with your thinking - which presumably is that every single person with diagnosed or non-diagnosed ND is neurodivergent.

Well said...
This is the very reason people do shut down conversations...one opinion only and blind to it.

It’s continuously on MN. Other disabilities don’t get this scrutiny.

”Of course people are genuinely querying the huge increase in ND - it’s a huge social phenomenon that is having a huge impact on our public services. People are curious, that’s natural. It doesn’t mean people are being unkind.”

It is not a huge social phenomenon - women and girls are simply better diagnosed and there is backlog from covid and under funding. It doesn’t have an impact on public services as you don’t get anything extra service wise from a diagnosis.

What has an impact on public services is the difficulties autistic people face being left to get worse .

@jud3I’m not disputing anything you have said… I’m actually trying to say ( badly) that some people are just shitty… not because they are ND but because that are just arseholes!

When you infer that MD people are abusers and bullies using their ND as an excuse it’s hugely offensive.

Autistic traits are hugely difficult to live with hence it being a protected disability.

When was the last time you saw a thread where everyone questioned if an OP's DH has dementia because he forgot her birthday? Or a friend spilling a drink and not cleaning it up has having parkinsons?

ND on the other hand is questioned almost on every thread. Isn't that not minimising ND in itself?

I feel the same way (also formally diagnosed). It is awful to read over and over again people suggesting shitty behaviour is down to the person being autistic. I am not a horrible person. Sometimes I get social stuff wrong or unintentionally upset someone without meaning to and if someone lets me know I will apologise, reflect and try to learn. I would never deliberately try to hurt someone or be mean.

I think it's because for some DC who are not NT, conforming to expectations (ie good behaviour) is much harder to accomplish than for NT DC.
Not that we should excuse being unkind, violent, etc. but recognizing that ND children may just not be able to do xyz with the same exact environment and incentives as all the other DC is a step forward. You can't punish a child out of autism. But people sometimes seem to want to :( or want to try.

Probably because it’s easier for people to attribute it to ND and in many cases use it as an excuse rather than hold themselves accountable. I.e., there MUST be something else to blame but themselves

I believe this to be correct, I have come across some adults with appalling behaviour ( rude, sneaky, confrontational, manipulative, abrupt to name but a few) and then this behaviour should ( according to some) be accepted because they are in some way ND, I for one wouldn’t be accepting it

What you say here...

There's a young person that lives close by that has autism and strolls up and down our road, doesn't hurt anyone, definitely not a horrible person, chats to those they know and will ask questions of you out right, things they're obviously thinking, nothing personal but not necessarily something everyone would ask so bluntly.
Some would see it as rude, maybe so, those who know Sam will think yep only Sam and either answer or chat about something else...no offence meant/taken in any way from either side.

not real name

I do sort of see where you're coming from in that it is being mentioned more but I don't think it's to excuse behaviors but explain and there is a difference between the 2. I'm late diagnosed and now I look back in my life and I can reflect on times I struggled in relationships or friendships with communication or being able to cope with certain emotions never to an extreme sense but just through different ways. People now have a lot more awareness of the lack of recognition and diagnosis for things like ADHD or Autism and it is probably the reason why it gets brought up now vs 10 years ago.
The difference is that while it can explain it doesn't excuse but many allistic people frame it as an excuse. So for example being unable to cope in certain situations or being late continually. These are things that can explain people's behaviors, and as much as you can try to minimize the impact of them at the end of the day it is a different brain type, it is usually a disability and so accomodations need to be made.

Where it is perhaps weaponised or not understood is when it crosses into the potentially abusive category. And that's where it doesn't matter if the root cause is ADHD, Narcism or just being an a$$hole the result should be ending the relationship. An example might be a partner who insists on managing the finances but it continually impulsive and therefore keeps putting the family into debt. That is financial abuse, the underlying issues are perhaps ADHD impulsivity but mainly an unwillingness to take action and a continued pattern of control and regardless of the impact on the family. Most likely also intentionally keeping the partner in debt because they can't leave if they don't have money.

I don't know if that makes sense but I hope it does.

Younger members of my family have diagnoses of Asperger's, AHD and dyslexia. It actually makes a lot of sense about the experiences of us oldies and also of my mother's generation and grandfather's generation.

It all stems from my mum's side of the family. I had one great-uncle who lived with my grandparents and who used to have to leave the house if visitors came. He bought a field, built himself a 'hut' with a working fireplace and used to take refuge there with his Shetland pony.

My mother, was deemed to be "shy". Ditto the cousin and the son who was first in the family to be diagnosed. The latter finds it very difficult to cope with people...At a very young age, he taught himself to play chess using his dad's electronic chess set. Was very introverted, but went to college and got a diploma in electrical engineering. He now has a good job and paid cash for his house.

I got a formal diagnosis of OCD (obsessive ruminations made my life hell) when I was in my 30s. Now that I'm in my 60s, a HCP has suggested that I have ASD and ADHD. It does seem to fit. I've mentioned it to my GP, but she just laughed and said "What's normal?" (At my advanced aged I'm not seeking a formal diagnosis.)

I've joined a couple of FB forums and I do recognise myself in some of the things that I see there - the masking and so on. (As a child, I quickly learned that I was deemed to be rude to fail to make eye contact. As I teacher, I faked it.)

However...I find myself perturbed by some of the discussions that I see on the FB groups.

People talk about being unable to do things because they're 'out of spoons' - an analogy which I do understand - but when there are discussions about family support or how family members react to the behaviour of posters I see very little sympathy for anyone other than the posters.

And no - I'm not talking about NT people simply being overwhelmed.

Example: a young woman living with her parents complained because her mother has told her to restrict showers to 10 minutes. There were umpteen comments of "How dare your mother treat you like that!" and "If you find long hot showers soothing, you should be allowed to take them!"

Only a few older posters - myself included - pointed out that in the UK the parents might well be worried about utility bills. One poster had the temerity to ask whether the OP contributed to paying the utility bills. Answer was there none.

By default, anyone who is contributing to these forums is high functioning, so we're not going to hear from those who are completely unable to cope in this world without support.

I also find it interesting that there's often an assumption made that the posters' family members are NT when - in actual fact - there's a strong possibility that they also have a form of ND and are dealing with their own difficulties.

I've found being a member of these forums useful - "Oh! Executive disfunction - that's what it is!" but the overwhelming majority of those posting there seem to expect the world to revolve around them and their difficulties and people posting for advice are often told that others must absolutely accommodate them at all times.

I worked in schools for 40 years and I am not talking about educational/exam accommodations here - part of my job was ensuring that children did in fact get the accommodations that they were entitled to.

Yes. When I was working with young people, I'd see NT youngsters who reminded me of myself at the same age.

One lad had all his teachers told how much money his parent had taken on holiday...I got flashbacks to telling my aunties that I had one hundred pounds in the bank and my poor old mum trying to tell me that you just don't blurt out certain things.

It depends on the individual and how it impacts them
For my son certainly ,his severe autism,/ learning disabillities ,can result in some extremely challenging behviour but the spectrum is huge

We are conditioned to see the actions of fear, distress, overwhelm, confusion and frustration as ‘bad’ behaviour especially if they manifest in loud vocalisation. What needs to change is awareness rather than the actions of those with disabilities. I was out yesterday at a popular attraction and a child, clearly ND and very distressed (ear piercing screaming) was just being stared at by most people. It’s not being used as an excuse, it is an explanation for certain behaviours.

I'm not convinced this isn't an ND bashing thread, but I'll try and answer the question:

I think there's some misunderstanding as to what ND actually is - some people think it covers personality disorders and mental illness, the former of which is more likely than ND to explain bad or abusive behaviour (or they could just be an arsehole).

OTOH, it's always suited intolerant people to view behaviour resulting from ND as bad behaviour, some of my ex teachers being cases in point. I'm sure that still happens.

There is a clear difference between ND and children who make choices to mess around and cause as much chaos as possible. These children come from a chaotic home. A home with no boundaries. Where issues are sorted with anger or even abuse.

These are the parents who will say “ah we’re having them assessed for adhd.” No further questions or it’s not my fault they act like this.

By not asking the question we’re ignoring why these children are acting this way. Luckily people are starting to ask and ignore the stupid denial and we recognise it more now bollocks.

Totally agree with the OP, I recognise that there are cases where people are unable to control their behaviour but these are the extreme and it is so obvious that those individuals have a problem as it always was. I am talking about a child for example that cannot access mainstream education or an adult that clearly can't function. There are however many cases where ND is used as an excuse for behaviour, parents use it, teenagers use it, old and young adults use it as if it explains away any action. The rest of population are expected to put up with this behaviour without complaint which in a way gives those who uses this as an excuse a licence to act exactly how they want with not thought of the consequences.

No one’s accountable for their behaviour nowadays, just blame it on something or other and you can behave like as a big a knob as you like. Their kids too, why bother parenting when you can just blame it on something else.

If someone is outlining a really difficult scenario particularly with relationships and there's nothing constructive that can be added, it's a default for a lot of posters because they the unmanageable situation has a neat logical answer and therefore could never happen to them and they don't need to worry.

Ie "my child is suddenly out of control"/ "my partner is being a dick to me"- if you can't give any advice you have to accept that you'd be at sea if the same thing happened to you, and that's scary.

"Maybe they're ND" as a stock answer means suddenly it's not scary anymore and couldn't ever happen to someone as wise and well informed as the responder, so they don't ever need to worry about that because they would immediately recognise neurodiversity and therefore somehow be in control.

Essentially all victim blaming is just defensiveness against our own fears.

The autistic people I know tend to be noticeably nicer people on average than neurotypicals, so yes it's a bit suspicious to me when arseholes blame their behaviour on autism.

I don't think that's autism bashing, is it?

'Better diagnosed', but by the age of 18, 80% of girls/ women are still undiagnosed. So there's still actually a massive underdiagnosis of particular demographics. So it shouldn't really be a shock that many people are undiagnosed and their behaviour is therefore begging the question "could they be ND?" Statistically, many actually are.

To be clear, this isn't a bashing thread as I'm generally interested in views and reasonings. Posting here for traffic really.

Yeah, right.