Why is ND a common excuse for poor behaviour now?

[PonderingCarefully]

To be clear, this isn't a bashing thread as I'm generally interested in views and reasonings. Posting here for traffic really.

I get ND is a huge thing now and way more people are being vocal about it being accepted in society. This i am in favour of but.... so often now, especially on MN/SM, you see people excusing or questioning if poor behaviour is a result of undiagnosed ND. For example, a partner withdrawing/saying hurtful things would usually be seen as abuse now it's are they on the spectrum? A friend who's taking advantage is no longer seen as a entitled CF but is said to need more patience incase they are ND.

Why is this? Is it now a society norm that you actually need to feel quilted into accepting this behaviour just incase there's something undiagnosed at play? Are we now going to start seeing abusers and bully's in a new light of "maybe it's not their fault" now?

Definitely OP! Friends kid was a little sh&t with few boundaries, and ND was muttered quite a lot but they tried to get a diagnosis to no avail… things came to a head at Secondary and with the help of school they started to actually parent him and he’s like a different person.
I volunteer somewhere where there are genuinely a lot of ND kids and it does them a disservice when people use that as an excuse for their badly behaved children.

But this simply is not true for some ND people. Impulsivity is a significant trait in adhd. As is emotional disregulation. So yes “poor” behaviour as NTs might say, but always followed by sincere apologies and remorse. A person with a shit personality does not do the intense “review self, regret behaviour, apologise copiously, strategise to do better” that makes up a portion of an ADhd persons life.

And some people use suspected undiagnosed ND as an excuse.

As with anyone, NT/ND, it’s the same, people make decisions based on a person’s “good” traits outweighing the “bad.

Ours teens both have NT mates and ND mates, and NT teens they can’t stand and ND teens they can’t stand.

It’s not the neuro bit that they decide on it’s the person.

Exactly.

The word “ableist” is churned out whenever anyone ever mentions ND. “I’ve reported this thread” always shows up in the comments too. If anyone dares have an opinion outside of what these people deem to be the right one, they come at you. 🙄

Part of the problem on here is that many of these ‘opinions’ are based on total and utter ignorance of the topic, and those people are so unbelievably arrogant that they refuse to take on board information provided by those that a) have lived experience and/or b) have a lot more knowledge about the topic than they do. It happens every week on here. It’s incredibly tiresome.

I think that comes from both “sides”, so to speak. Have seen plenty of posters who will not entertain for one second that some parents don’t exploit their child’s apparent issues, that some aren’t desperate for diagnosis to absolve them of parenting, that some people don’t use their diagnosis to benefit themselves. Perhaps people with no insight into ND can be arrogant about it, and those who do can often have tunnel vision based on their own experience only.

There’s no black and white, IMO. Plenty of genuine people with genuine issues, a whole spectrum of severity, plenty of parents who do their best for their children, plenty of parents who use “he can’t help screaming at you, he’s got ADHD”, plenty of people exaggerating their issues. They all exist, IMO.

I think it reflects an attempt at trying to understand WHY people behave the way they do.

Of course you can just say “It’s their fault and they’re a bad person” like we used to in ‘the good old days’ but it doesn’t really get you anywhere or change anything does it?

Considering the reasons for poor behaviour and being empathetic is more taxing on the brain, so people who don’t enjoy thinking or find it difficult may rail against this approach.

Trying to understand each other, even those who behave badly, does no harm to anyone and actually often results in a lot of good.

Victims / survivors of bullying for example may not be the right people to be doing this thinking, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done, and mumsnet is a good place to throw around different ideas and possibilities.

@NC28 Yes, I agree with that.
There are also some very ableist people on here who believe they can decide the level to which someone is impacted by a ND diagnosis either through a computer screen or from observing someone for a few hours here and there. They also take great pleasure in trying to wind up those who are ND to get a reaction so they be ‘proved right’. Those are the people that ruin every single thread that crops up.

That’s fair too.

Someone, I think on this thread, said they thought there should be diagnosis but then a sub-diagnosis. So someone would be diagnosed with autism, but then be further diagnosed into a category that gave more insight into how they were affected. The spectrum is so wide that it maybe contributes to some of the prejudice and poorly informed views you see.

This has come up several times since I've been in MN. But how would it work? Posters (different older thread) have said there should be 2 levels. But I and I'm sure many others won't fit into either. I'm nothing like friends of mine who work and are independent.

You are criticising their disability. You don’t criticise wheelchair users for being in the way.

So you are in effect saying physical disabilities you can see can’t help it but hidden disabilities can and that is abelist.

I dunno. I think what the OP was doing here was the opposite. Seems they're sticking up for ND by saying stop blaming bad behaviour on being ND. Sometimes people are just dicks then try to say it's because they have ND when being ND does NOT make you a dick.

The current dsm does have different levels to assign to diagnosis but they don't seem to be used much. Profound autism will hopefully be included in the next dsm . My preference would be for descriptors that define the severity of the autism and the severity of mental health needs that goes with (if any) as many people don't seem to get their mh addressed. Eg for my son profound/ severe autism/ no mh. For another low level autism (worded however) with sever mental health needs (so someone who is verbal, intelligent, capable but is suicidal). You could add in sensory needs too. I think this would help people ge their needs met too however they present as it would be harder for professionals/ services to ignore.

There is zero tolerance or understanding of their disability.

And the inconveniences it brings. You can’t just switch a disability off.

The different levels refer to need which can fluctuate and absolutely does not rely on whether somebody is verbal or not.There is no severity level as that is impossible to measure.

Again some levels of need in some peoole remain high at all times and do not fluctuate you can only talk about your own experience of autsm
As can i and my sons needs dont fluctuate and remain high at all times

I thought this may help the conversation. Not only does it show the breakdown of how the levels are assigned in the dsm, it also shows how the dx has changed over time (autism specific).

I think personality traits are now medicalised/diagnosed a lot. Kids hear it and then identify something and build their whole identity around it. A friend of DS(7) tells everyone "I have anger issues" as if he can't possibly be expected to keep calm or discuss things or compromise when he doesn't get his way.

I think there can (not always, not everyone) be times when having a label then leads to a learned helplessness in some situations that further compounds the issues. (Eg. "I can't work because I have anxiety" rather than "I get anxious sometimes, particularly around interview situations". I think ADHD is another area that people are really making the central pillar to their identity, and have a couple of friends who were diagnosed in their 40s who now say "I can't do X because of my ADHD" whereas they probably might've given it a go pre-diagnosis. Again, not all, not everyone, not always.

The opening post certainly does feel goady to me. Such lack of awareness on this thread.

This discussion is however a good one to have and I welcome debating posts, if the intent is to debate of course.

I participate in parenting threads primarily as I have experience. I will regularly suggest ND as an explanation. I know I'm usually right.

To answer, parents in this situation tend to pick up on cues within posts that other people won't get, receive or resonate with.

There's significant misinformation and lack of awareness. For example, the overwhelming inheritance rate. A poster will almost always declare further along that a close family member is ND. Most people are unaware of this heritability factor.

There's a political agenda underway utilising smoke and mirrors nonsense such as suggesting people are being ' over diagnosed '. No,they aren't. But it's a bit like 'they're eating the cats and dogs'. The public must find a scapegoat.

Reality is, people are being MIS diagnosed more likely with things such as ' borderline personality disorder ', depressed and anxiety, when really they needed an Autism assessment. But a thorough NICE approved assessment isn't easy to access anymore. And service provision is actually being obliterated.

So, people will be Autistic and unable to access assessment which you will use to further justify your own need to believe this story being fed to you. 'oh everyone's self diagnosing '. Personally, I didn't ever meet anyone who suspected they're ND and then myself thought they were wrong on that suspicion. Not a single one.

The truth is - the ND population is significant. ND people are having children and those children are likely all going to be ND. The public clearly does not like this.

People can be ND and also be dicks. As can NT people. This post, the media and others are an attempt to over simplify something. I never see posts such as ' my husband hits me ' and a reply such as ' is he Autistic '. Never.

ND behaviour will be difficult quite often for NT people living in an NT world with fixed social rules and quite bizarre approaches to schooling as one example. People are being set up to be difficult.

This is spot on. Building an identity that centres around neurodiversity definitely leads to that kind of learned helplessness. I think the relative anonymity of "neurodivergent" contributes to that - whereas previously people would have said "I find X and X challenging because I have ADHD", and people can suggest workarounds and techniques, it's now "I'm neurodivergent" - there's so many different "flavours" of neurodivergent that no one can suggest something that may help, so nothing changes.

I’m no expert but I’d imagine it would need more than two levels. Like you say - people out there are independent and working, then there are non-verbal people who are totally reliant on full care. Then all the people who fall somewhere in the middle.

That’s not a fair comparison, obviously.

It a completely fair. Both have disabilities that need reasonable adjustments. One is hidden and one isn’t.