Why is ND a common excuse for poor behaviour now?

[PonderingCarefully]

To be clear, this isn't a bashing thread as I'm generally interested in views and reasonings. Posting here for traffic really.

I get ND is a huge thing now and way more people are being vocal about it being accepted in society. This i am in favour of but.... so often now, especially on MN/SM, you see people excusing or questioning if poor behaviour is a result of undiagnosed ND. For example, a partner withdrawing/saying hurtful things would usually be seen as abuse now it's are they on the spectrum? A friend who's taking advantage is no longer seen as a entitled CF but is said to need more patience incase they are ND.

Why is this? Is it now a society norm that you actually need to feel quilted into accepting this behaviour just incase there's something undiagnosed at play? Are we now going to start seeing abusers and bully's in a new light of "maybe it's not their fault" now?

Completely agree with the pathologisng of normal human emotions. It's normal to feel anxious before an interview or to not like Zoom calls. It doesn't necessarily mean you are autistic or have anxiety. But I find these days people leap to cry autism.
Absolutely agree with Munchausen by internet taking over.

You are right. Yes people are ND but there are most certainly those who claim it to avoid work/blame for their actions/physical abuse etc.

As a teacher, the amount of parents who blame undiagnosed ND for their child's behaviour is staggering and extremely worrying, not least for that child.

I think it likely that autism and ADHD are far more prevalent than is currently realised.

Our world is designed for neurotypical people. The way schooling and work are designed is a struggle for ND people.

As is social life. Many ND people find friendships and relationships difficult to navigate and their approach and behaviours may not match others'.

Many issues may well stem from neurodivergence, whether recognised or not.

Only very recently, experts were confidently asserting that autism & ADHD only affected boys. = 51% of the planet ignored, and a huge cohort of women and girls undiagnosed and unsupported. So many only being recognised later in life.

Partly because the world isn't designed for them, it's likely a large sector of the prison population is ND. If everyone going into youth custody and prison were effectively assessed I'm convinced many more would be identified, which is a first step to understanding and supporting.

It gets criticised here but yes I do think we should be open to the possibility that behaviour issues may - MAY - have neurodivergence at their core and it's wise to consider the possibility. To keep an open mind.

Because ND people can be helped and supported to understand and live in a world that is overwhelming.

And NT people can be helped and supported to understand their parent, partner, friend, colleague, child, pupil etc may struggle to achieve that, and have greater insight into WHY things are happening.

If neurodivergence can be ruled out, then whatever's left is their personality, upbringing, education, life experience and sometimes conscious choice of behaviour in play. Then you can decide if you are prepared to accept that. Or do something about it.

So yes, though it can cause a knee jerk reaction in many people, like OP, I think raising the question, having the conversation and keeping an open mind about the possibility are valuable.

And it's possible to be ND and nasty - or ND and lovely.

I think you are conflating a number of issues. There are a huge number of ND adults who haven’t been diagnosed as the diagnostic process was practically non-existent 30,40,50 years ago. The waitlist for an adult diagnosis is up to 7 years in some areas.

Some people look for any excuse to justify shitty behaviour rather than face the fact someone has made poor choices or simply isn’t a nice person.

And lastly, you can be neurodivergent, and ALSO be a complete arsehole, and that is as well as being ND, not because of.

@Newmumhere40

As a teacher, the amount of parents who blame undiagnosed ND for their child's behaviour is staggering and extremely worrying, not least for that child.

Are teachers trained now to be alert and sensitive to the possibility that undiagnosed neurodivergence may well lie at the root of a child's behaviour?

And as we know it's genetic, that it could also lie behind parenting issues and skills gaps? Especially if you meet and interact with the parents?

What has changed in teacher training and continuing professional development in response to growing realisations that neurodivergence is something that affects girls who were previously left out?

How has the fact that realising more people are being diagnosed in later life because they weren't seen or recognised as children affecting teacher training and practice today?

How is the teaching profession evolving in response to these new realisations?

I think the thing is, in some (a lot of?) cases, teachers aren't being asked to support the child with ND or to provide interventions or alter their teaching practice. The implication is, "you have to let my child continue exactly as they are because they are ND".

I had a child in my class who was routinely trying to explode aerosol deodorant whenever I asked him to do work. The parents' attitude was "well he has ADHD and ODD so what do you expect?".

I also had a child in my class who had severe dyslexia and ADHD. Her parents had high expectations of her and asked me to do the same. She, her parents and I all nearly cried on parents' evening discussing the progress she'd made and how her self confidence had grown in various areas.

Many teachers are also neurodivergent. We can't just keep shifting the responsibility from child to parent to teachers - who can the ND teachers push the responsibility onto? If everyone involved works together and no one expects someone else to magically fix the problem, the results are so much better.

The issue with the use of ND as an excuse is that there is an assumption by those who use it that it is unchallengeable. Many not just those who use the term to excuse poor behaviour feel they can’t challenge poor behaviour by those who use the ND label as they are being discriminatory. The impact on those who don’t use such a label in some cases is unreasonable, people should not have to put up with poor behaviour. I accept there are some cases where it is a obvious that some has a condition that can’t be controlled but theses are exceptions.

I teach many ND children. The way parents raise these children varies enormously.
in adults the trend for self diagnosis is ridiculous and makes life harder for others.

I also think the pathologising of normal conditions is a huge issue that can be accentuated by the lack of mental health support currently available. As an example I have CPTSD but haven't been able to access proper support for it. I am now medicated for an anxiety disorder that is presenting with high blood pressure which is a threat to my health. I was on a waiting list for nearly a year to see someone and ended up with someone with a counselling course telling me to do CBT for 6 sessions, which isn't enough. I have had CBT before but no one asked if it worked. I went from seeing a psychotherapist to a counsellor and had to wait a year for that and now can't access more because apparently I didn't cooperate because I didn't agree it would help.

It's a tangent from ADHD but I do think people with mental health issues are branching out into whatever support they can find because of the lack of any central support.

It really doesn’t and self diagnosis is needed as waits are so long. Unis are recognising this and opening up support to those not yet diagnosed but on lists.

Your ignorance as regards ND and the difficulties for children considering you’re a teacher is a big concern .

These threads always go the same way, don’t they?

You cannot broach the subject of ND (unless it’s in the context of asking about EHCPs or similar) without being accused of being some sort of tyrant who hates disabled people and wants to hunt people with autism out of society.

You can start a topic on just about anything, but not this. People will report the thread because others have a different opinion and they can’t handle it? I can only imagine what these folk are like in real life.

Yes, there are many genuine cases of ND who warrant diagnosis, adjustments at work/school and access to support. There are also bullshitters who want to “self-identify” as being ND because they get a bit anxious in a crowd. And there are parents desperate to label their kid as being ND to relieve themselves of guilt for not raising them properly when they’re being hauled into school to be told their child is out of control.

All of these things are true.

You could say the same with any disability but it’s funny it’s always autism.

I agree with everything you say. I do have an open mind and is why I actually started this thread in the first place, to gain a better understanding of why. It's definitly not a case of a one size fits all subject or a all or none basis.

It just concerns me that a huge number of people, whether ND or NT, are now being told/advised to be more patient and tolerant to ALL poor behaviour incase the perpetrator is ND. Things like being followed home, being isolated or verbally abused by a partner, being assaulted, taking on another person's mental/physical load to the brink of a breakdown... all of which have been threads on here and ALL of them have had many comments saying "well have you considered they may be undiagnosed ND".

Of course in some cases this is a valid response but is it really the case for all? Is acceptance and understanding of ND only ever going to be achieved by conditioning society to be more tolerant to abuse and poor behaviour from other adults?

Is it really going to be 2 sides of a coin where on 1 side we live in fear with our pitchforks or the other side where all abuse, all crime and all poor behaviour has to be tolerated with the defense of a possibility of undiagnosed ND? Isn't that just building a bigger and harder fight against the ALL ND should then be treated with caution and as potential criminals argument? Surely this new movement of labelling is more damaging to the acceptance of these disabilities than maintaining boundaries and opening discussions about poor behaviour.

@PonderingCarefully yup, this very thing is happening at work. A destructive, obnoxious, insulting colleague has a disclaimer on the end of her email declaring her disability. People are now unable to react to her behaviour without being deemed discriminatory. I can’t see how her issues are attributed to adhd, it’s her personality. Teasing the two apart is difficult.

New movement of labelling!!!Do you mean better diagnostics with women and girls finally getting the diagnosis they deserve and have a right to.

You know what has it occurred to you that maybe NT behaviour is often less than desirable and warrants being pulled up.

It’s allowed to ‘pull up’ a NT persons behaviour though, without being seen as a discriminatory scum bag.

Two out of my four dc are ND and i suspect i may also be ( im not diagnosed though). I have always raised them to be polite and respectful and they know that i will not tolerate bad behaviour and i can tell the difference between them struggling with the ND and simply behaving badly. I think to many these days use ND as an excuse for not parenting properly and poorly raised children.

Is it though? The numbers of bullying and being victims of crime are massive for ND people , it’s well known. It seems to be ok to mock and bully ND people for not fitting the norm and being different. It happens so much without being pulled up and nearly all ND people experience it.

Disability laws are there for a reason.

Disregulation and overwhelm is often seen as bad behaviour. It isnt. If it is to be avoided reasonable adjustments are crucial but it is a massive battle to get any anywhere.

I think that yes a lot of people see the world through very different eyes, but the trick to life for a big chunk of these people (not talking about learning disables) is to nevertheless learn to function in society. This is what good parenting used to be about. Failing at that has always been a problem for society.

There is also an argument for there being a rise in crimes where the main defence is suspected ND.

“These people”

That is abelist talk, you can’t learn your way out of ND. The same as any disability. Reasonable adjustments are crucial but a battle to get.

Define function. Masking is hugely damaging.It nearly killed my daughter.

Link to data please.

As it’s well known ND are more likely to be victims of crime.