Why is ND a common excuse for poor behaviour now?

[PonderingCarefully]

To be clear, this isn't a bashing thread as I'm generally interested in views and reasonings. Posting here for traffic really.

I get ND is a huge thing now and way more people are being vocal about it being accepted in society. This i am in favour of but.... so often now, especially on MN/SM, you see people excusing or questioning if poor behaviour is a result of undiagnosed ND. For example, a partner withdrawing/saying hurtful things would usually be seen as abuse now it's are they on the spectrum? A friend who's taking advantage is no longer seen as a entitled CF but is said to need more patience incase they are ND.

Why is this? Is it now a society norm that you actually need to feel quilted into accepting this behaviour just incase there's something undiagnosed at play? Are we now going to start seeing abusers and bully's in a new light of "maybe it's not their fault" now?

I didn't infer that, I was just responding to your comment about never having met people who are ND and behave awfully.

Inclusivity doesn't work if someone else is being harmed

Absolutely spot on. I champion inclusivity and disability awareness, but we have to be realistic and accept that some things are unsafe.

Is it fair that other people can drive and I can't due to my disability? No. Is it necessary for safety? Yes, absolutely.

Anxiety before interview is actually healthy for you. I have kept the jobs longest onto which I was anxious. The ones where I went in and out laughing on the inside and swagging how good I am, did not last long. LOL

It does make it harder. Trying to get my dd’s ND recognised by others is not helped by the fact that so many people are self diagnosing now when actually there is nothing wrong with them. Parents with naughty children labelling them as being autistic without a diagnosis means people don’t recognise the realities of autism. We knew dd was autistic but until she was diagnosed we always said suspected autism. IMO there is a big difference.

You do seem to be struggling with this thread. Most people are not taking offence and are having a calm discussion. You can't just silence people.

And I am sorry this is happening. I actually made everything possible that my child is not labelled with anything she has not got. Strangely the variety of experiences people get. My child had only two presentations around sensitivity in few areas of her overall self. Had never had any problems with behaviour, angelic, moral, patient, studious, helpful. Her issues were resolved with just a page of advice each.

According to my experience professionals just sometimes get tired and just tick boxes, either not helping the really needy patients or the opposite, deciding are going to overdiagnose someone with something they clearly do not have. Not sure why they do that. Hence the fact when some people hear the word < professionals> laugh their heart out and run a mile.

Wishing you the best.

This is offensive to me. I have an nhs adhd diagnosis late 50s. My “bad behaviour” may appear so to you because you lack tolerance, joy in life, openness, or respect for human emotions.
Ive had a lifetime of being told I’m “too direct”, “too honest”, “over emotional”, “lazy”, “inconsistent”, “unreliable”, “failed to life up to my potential”, “too loud”, “too quiet”, “too dominant”, “aggressive” blah bloody blah. Try and imagine the relief at finding out im not “too…” anything.

If people have told you that they find you "too direct", "too honest" and aggressive, you can't just shrug your shoulders and say "I'm not "too" anything, you just lack tolerance". That sounds like your behaviour is negatively affecting others, and regardless of neurotype, we all have a responsibility not to let our behaviour impact negatively on others.

Because so many people don't want to take responsibility for their shitty behaviour. It's easier to say that they are ND. I actually see this on Mumsnet quite a bit. Someone is rude to you? They must have dementia/be on the autistic spectrum. More likely than not,they are just rude.

Everyone has the ability to think before they speak, think before they act.

Does it matter if people use ND as the reason?

Being a knob is being a knob.

If parents use it as an excuse all it will do is contribute to the social alienation of kids who only need a small amount of understanding because people will get to the position that they have been expected so many times to excuse terrible behaviour they just stop trying.
Same with adults, someone asks you out, say, they inform you at some point they have ADHD you will run a mile and think no I am not going to just accept whatever I have to, because you know ND.

It is in everyone’s interest that ND isn’t used as a behavioural excuse.

ND people need boundaries for their own mental health and this is really misunderstood at the moment. Needs will constantly be unmet without boundaries and the boundaries need to be appropriate to the underlying need, eg ability to be accepted by others in order to have relationships, recognising that putting hands in a fire is dangerous, kicking an adult because they don’t immediately provide something wanted, all roads lead to emotional upset and can be addressed very early on.

In regards to people not going to places because their disability, my ds has severe autism, he's the size of a medium man, he flaps and vocalises or uses echolalia which cannot be controlled. I will always take him to places he wants to goto, he has as much right to go as anyone else. I will however always try to take him to a relaxed session/ performance if they're available. Some venues I know of have stopped their relaxed sessions because their being used by people for cheap tickets or to allow them to bring their babies when they would otherwise not be welcomed (theatre etc). He isn't violent, won't throw things and is able to move out of people's way.

The increase in nd dx has changed what autism is seen as and that is a big negative for our family. We now have to stress severe or use ld (which isn't actually diagnosed but gets the point across). I'm now a big advocate for splitting the autism dx in the dsm again so people with profound autism are separated because they're needs and life are so vastly different to bulk of nd people.

Nd or autism now doesn't really mean much as so many people have a dx and yes I think it is used as an excuse for poor behaviour.

Not everyone can speak. There are many people with autism who are non verbal. They may use aac for communication but for the majority of users their communication is usual about getting their needs met. If they are communicating their opinion they will have really thought about it and then thought about how they are going to communicate that (quite difficult with picture exchange unless they have been given swears/ insults).

Completley agree ,you just cant compare children like my son and yours with others on the spectrum
I dont know if you are a member of the same facebook severe and profound autism group as me
Its an Americsn one and there is talks that some states are setting up councils for profound autism.

you just cant compare children like my son and yours with others on the spectrum

And yet, people do, all day, every day, to minimise and dismiss the experiences of other people that also actually have a diagnosis.
How about we all just stop comparing altogether. It does not help anyone or solve anything.

Hi, yes I follow the council for severe autism and I'm on a few pages for families like ours. I find the general autism pages just don't fit for us and it's good to have people that get it and discuss things that apply to our lives. It's a million miles away from what some people experience and I find it really sad.

I hope the Easter hols go OK for you x

I'm now a big advocate for splitting the autism dx in the dsm again so people with profound autism are separated because they're needs and life are so vastly different to bulk of nd people.

Agreed, your son's needs and experiences are very different from my more high functioning (or whatever you want to call it) daughter's. They may be on the same spectrum, but in very different places and it would be useful to have some widely understood and agreed upon language to express that. Equally someone up thread said their husband is a teacher and is autistic. When I hear things like that, I must admit to feeling confused. How can you have a communication disorder with sensory issues and work in noisy communication centered job being in a room full of people all day?

Agreed

Because you're comparing apples and oranges and when services, adjustments and the general interpretation of autism doesn't represent your child it matters.

Part of the reason families and professionals are asking for profound autism to be brought in is so this group is represented fully and have their needs met. Often parents/ carers of these people are told quite abruptly to shut up or that a nt can't speak for an nd etc. In reality a person with autism who is able to advocate for themselves and articulate their wants, needs etc has nothing in common with people like my son. Infact I find it quite arrogant that they assume to know about their lives when they have no idea of their difficulties or how they perceive them as they can't even communicate that themselves. The caregiver however who advocates for them in real life, looks after them, loves them and knows them does.

I agree and when people talk about the autism community
They are not talking about one that includes my son he belongs to a different community two days into easter its as well as can be expected 🤣
Thsnkfully we have a reasonable amount of respite now
It took years to get though.

Then stop comparing. It’s really that simple.

To advocate for your child and their needs you do not need to dismiss the experience of others that might have lower support needs. If they have been diagnosed they have met the diagnostic criteria of being significantly impacted by their symptoms. The word ‘mild’ therefore makes little sense in accurately describing that.You do not need to foist that onto others to advocate for your child and explain their needs.

FWIW I agree with the notion that there is a need for a ‘profoundly autistic’ sub category so those with very high care needs are more visible and perhaps any additional funding streams could be directed there.

I also really hope a lot more research is conducted on that category of autistic people, because they are even more excluded from research than girls and women are. You can’t extrapolate results of a lot of research to categories that weren’t included in the first place.

I don’t wish to argue as it never ends well so this will be my final post on this thread.

I'm not dismissing, I'm saying it's different. It's difficult to show difference without comparing 🤷‍♀️

Mumsnet's wilful 'pushback' of not deleting ableist and discriminatory threads such as these will ultimately be it's downfall. How long does MNHQ think it will get away with letting disability discrimination stand, before the UK media will ask it's watchers and readers, 'Should Mumsnet be forced to be shutdown for allowing discrimination of disabled people to proliferate it's site?'

Are people not allowed to discuss or debate, or have a right to any opinions any more?